Are Mercedes-Benz Certified Technicians Paid enough?
Techs: What are you guys pulling in per year (approx.)?
What does it take to become a MB tech?
Techs: What percentage of the labour rate charged at the dealership are you taking home?

Is reform needed?

THANK YOU,
MIKE MCKINNEY

according to MotorWerks of Barrington,IL they do. they charge $95 an hour for labor!! i hope there good. i can't afford them.

I'm wondering if the techs are tied to charge hours "by the book"

Flat rate shops should pay higher $/per hour and possibly might give better service?

A friend at work say's his brother in law is a Tech. Gets
23.00 hr at the dealership based on book rate, however
if it goes over book rate then he eats the difference and
only gets book rate. I would guess that a good Tech would
beat book rate and would finish the job in 2/3 the time.
Now to get him to do anything after work is another question. He would rather enjoy family life than work on
his buddy's Benz. Who can blame him!!!!!

Shyne,
Probably Not; considering their investment in schooling. I
understand it has to be updated on a annual basis. And their
tools of course. Has any one priced Snap-On tools lately???
Many items are allmost double the price of what I paid for
seven years ago. Based on what the
Dealer shop rate is it looks like their underpaid. I can
only afford to take my car in every 4 to 5 years due to
the Dealer shop rate. :(

Not a tech, but wish I knew more about working on my car.

Touchy subject most places I go! I am going to make some guesses to answer your question. They are based on my observations and do not fit the projections of the dept of labor.

At every good dealership there is at least one tech making 70 to 100k maybe more in large metropolitan dealers. The bulk of the techs there are making 30-50k. At the dealers they probably get health insurance at independents a large majority would (if they are working at shops working on Mercedes). This is the exception not the rule in the overall technical labor pool.

In the independent field I would say there are many techs making 60k but I would say there are many more making 25-30k with no benefits. All the techs at our shop make between 35-55k with full PPO health coverage (including family - Blue Cross/Blues Shield). We are in the rural South so that level could double at major independents in Major cities.

Believe me when I say that I would seriously discourage anyone from seeking this as a career. My daughter got a two year degree in nursing near ten years ago and came out the door and went right to work making as much as my techs were at the time. No investment in tools, no experience other than labs.

Believe me, if I won the lottery I would still be fixin cars. The only difference is I would be the customer.

Steve,

You never cease to amaze me. I thought the question of how much, what percentage, etc. was very nosy. It takes a very open individual to respond. My hat's off to you.

Everyone,

I understand that these days it is not uncommon for a tech to ultimately pay the Snap On man about $45K. I think the good ones do it because they love it. My Granddad once told me that "if you can find a job you love, you'll never have to work another day in your life". He was a rancher and loved the outdoors and the independence. He worked like crazy daylight to dark, but by his definition he never worked a single day.

Have a great day,

Steve:
I'm very appreciative and sincerly thank you for answering my question. I asked it due to my friend who is considering the trade. I would consider it myself if I could get a reputable dealer to apprentice me!!! Any tips or pointers for people who love to work on cars and are considering applying into the trade? Many people seem to be discouraging in a wide range of trades and careers that I come across. I've been told it's not worth the time or money for not enough in return. Any words of advice?

More than anything in life I would like a job I get excited about from the moment I wake up and enjoy doing. I pray to the Lord I do not end up rotting away in some cubicle!!!!!!

Steve THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO OFFER ANY ADVICE TO ANYONE LIKE MYSELF AND MY FRIEND JASON WHO ARE CONSIDERING THE FIELD!!!!!!

RESPECT.
MIKE MCKINNEY
JASON SCHNEIDER

Interesting topic. I have not researched this but one of the local independent shops owners told me he couldn’t find help. He said a few years ago he would just tell the Snap-On guy he was looking and in a few weeks he would have applicants. He said today the Snap-On guy gets $2000 from the competition if they find a tech. There are no applicants. He said he will hire and train a Tech School Grad but they want a ton of money ($20+/hr.) and “can’t even use an oscilloscope”. Today the systems are so complex and the diagnostic equipment so expensive and make/model exclusive that it costs a fortune to have access to the information. Then you need someone who can use it. Training slows down the shop owner and if the trainee leaves the shop has really lost a lot.

I know the local owner makes around $100,000 but he works a lot of hours to keep the customers happy. He can’t get help and won’t turn down the work because he says the customers may not come back. It is not an easy business.

I am so fascinated by automotive repair that I considered a career change but the dollars would be hard to recover and heck, I don’t know how long it would take for me to “get it”. Automotive repair is becoming my hobby. I always enjoyed it but with a gray market with intermittent problems it has become a necessity.

If you love it and are considering the field, just go for it. There are all kinds of advice. My father was a doctor and complained about the school, internship, and residency. He said he would never push anyone into medicine, but his partners are doing quite well. Lots of people complain about their careers. Everything can be tough or enjoyable. It all depends on the person and their attitude. Best luck to all.

Steve
’85 500SL (Euro)

I cant speak for MB techs, but I know the other end. I have been in the field for twenty years I would not trade it for the world. I'm in the fleet end of the buisness and it's been to many years since I have worked on commision to comment on the pay aspect of automotive repair so I will leave that to outstanding people like Steve and Benzmac. But as far as the tools so long as you dont loose them Snap On tools will last just about forever, so pay now or pay several times later. A lot of the hand tools I have are about 20 years old so they are surely worth the price for the proffesional tech. I'm sure Steve will attest to this that bending over fenders and crawling around the shop floor for 8 to 10 hour's day for a living is tough work. When it takes the first ten steps after getting out of the recliner to stand up straight youve been at this almost to long. From a mentally challlenging stand point I would highly recommend this proffesion. As far as the Physical punishment that you endur for the amount of money FIND another job. There is a reason there are no new people coming into the field! Just my humble opinion

I put myself through Engineering school working on cars and saw many jobs I really didn't want (worked for Boeing in Seattle as a draftsman after my first year of JC). I wound up staying with cars. If I had become as successful at some engineering private business enterprise as I now have become as an independent shop owner/technician, I would probably have become rich. I can't say that I would have been as happy doing anything else though. From that standpoint, I would say the future is bright for a bright technician. But, it is limited and costly.

I spent 5 years in engineering school (over about eight years) and passed my NAISE Masters Certification six months before I graduated from UofF in 1974. I worked for 6 years in dealers for very little pay doing OJT. I was unmarried and could afford not to MAKE a living. From some stand-points I have more time in training than a PHD or MD. I would really advise staying in school and going for a high tech automotive career. Anything from a race team to a chassis designer for GM, MB or whoever. You can have the challenge of seeing a project/hypothesis come to completion before your eyes; one of the true rewards of the diagnostic technician.

But do it for someone other than the public, they can't afford it. The industry is not designed to compensate a talented individual within the competative, non-regulated industry that exists.

Good Mechanics are hard to find and no I dont think they are overpaid. I spent two hours on the old MB the other day and I had cut fingers and my back felt like it was broke for bending over under the hood so long. I dont know too many mechanics that live in the rich part of town.....

I dont know about most of the but the ones of them that help us on this site are pricless.Michael

I started doing this because I really did love the work. After a while, I discovered that there were very few techs that were 'natural' at their work. I mean, some of the things I am asked as a lead tech are not even a thought process for me, I just know it.

I look at mechanical systems and can disect them in an instant. This took me really far really quick. I was the shop foreman in less than a year and had 5 techs that were older than me by 7 years or more UNDER me.

The problems in the job came for me after that. I felt that I had reached a ceiling in where I could go on the independent level...I was the foreman, and I was at the top pay. From there on out, it was to be small raises and little gratification.

Then came MercedesShop.com. I thought of this and proceeded with it. Now I found something that I could do when I want and get instant gratification out of it.

Now Bill and I are building a shop...I can't wait. I will be doing some things other than the routine services...like High Performance work!




I think the whole meaning of this rambling is that some of us really love the job, but need to stay interested in what we do somehow. How? I don't really know as of yet, but that is up to the managers and owners of the buisness.


PS, in our shop, the techs range from 40k to 75k.

I thank you for both your time and your honesty!!!

In Canada, apprenticeships are hard to find. U.W.O (my school) offers absolutely no apprentiship type programs whatsoever. There is one apprentice type automotive technician course at Fanshawe College but, a sponsor is needed.

How do things operate in the United States?
I know of none other than HOT ROD UNIVERSITY in cooperation with Universal Technical Institute. Upon calling them I was given nothing but, attitude and I believe the lazy operator did not even process my request for information due to the fact I live in Canada.

I AM DEAD SERIOUS WHEN I SAY I'D MOVE IN A HEARTBEAT IF A FACTORY TRAINED POSITION WAS AVAILABLE IN THE CONTINENTAL
UNITED STATES!!!!!!

Any other advice or places to obtain further information?
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

THANK YOU MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
Sincerly,
MIKE MCKINNEY
JASON SCHNEIDER

I hear what Donnie is saying. I worked as a mechanic until I was 30, going to school at night and attaining my first degree. Took a pay cut to be an Engineer, from lead mechanic at a Diesel truck shop.

The ceiling comes quick when you work for someone else. Owning a shop is the way to go. Lots more fun. and more money. As a mechanic, you are overhead to any shop owner, (cold, but true), so they will only pay you what they need to keep you there. Machiavellian, but realistic.

P.S. Last year, a friend bumped into me at Walmart and asked me about joining him in starting a shop down here. We discussed targeting the Japanese cars and only a/c and electric stuff. The salary he thought we would pull in far exceeded my Engineer pay........

I'm surely not an expert on Canadian labor practices, but I think you would find things quite different in the US.

You talk of apprentise programs. Other than in union states (I'm not sure that includes any but Ca.) I doubt if you could find any such programs here. There are plenty of Automotive Trade schools and trained techs are such a premium that many dealers will run their own OJT programs.

It is very easy to work as a technician in the US. I have often said that if you were a fleeing felon the two easiest fields to get lost in would be farm laborers and automotive technicians. The cash business in auto repair is staggering. (Refer to my above comments about lack of regulation).

Anyway, being a sharp technician requires quite a bit of training. If you get a generic two year degree in auto technology you will be able to find a dealer that will place you at that level. The dealers and independents are crying for recruits in my area of the world.

Unfortunately from that point, unless you are like Donnie (quick with hands and mind), you will be low man for quite some time. Doesn't pay well especially if you are buying that 20-45k tool box.

Whatever your plans are, include some formal education. If you really want to do this, the ultimate success is owning your own business. To achieve that, automotive skills are only a small part.

Good Luck!

Just wanted to say thanks to all the techs who help us out on this forum. As far as Mercedes technicians in general, I don't really know how much they make, but I have never been shocked by charges for service on my car (parts sometimes, yes). The work these guys do is incredible. My car is the second most important thing in my life, anyone who can keep it in terrific shape is worth it in my book. My last mechanic in Halifax, would always do little things for no charge everytime I took the car in for servicing (like oiling all the hinges - doors, gas cap, trunk hinges, etc, and cleaning and lubing the antenna too) In addition I you went in for one small thing he would always walk under the car and check out everything under the hood to make sure it was ship shape. I was probably only paying that guy half what he was worth (he made up the bills not me). If you're looking to get into the business I can't tell you if you'll make tonnes of money or not, but most MB mechanics I have met sure seem to love their jobs.

I know someone at the Seattle MB dealership that started as a courtesy driver and within a year was working as a service technician. Sadly, not a terribly good one but he is willing to work and learn. In his case, time will tell. This dealership is growing immensely and they are all but desperate for help. They are the only MB dealership in Seattle and one of only 3 in the area with a population of about 2 million folks and a lot of MB vehicles. If you give yourself the opportunity to talk with a dealer in any heavily populated area, I am all but sure they can give you both guidance and quite possibly a job that could work into something great. I know of several technicians at this dealership that have been there for over a decade (in several cases twice that). The key, as his been indicated above, is willingness to make a real commitment to learning a part of your daily life.

Any time you work with technology you have to keep current with not only this years models but, since the service life of a MB is something like 20 years, you’ll have to learn a lot about previous years models as well. No one expects anyone to memorize all this stuff, but the ability to learn the systems and do excellent work are what really pays down the line.

Good luck & always give your self the opportunities to reach & then exceed your goals.

…Tracy

I don't know what the techs make at the local dealership, but the dealer's service rate is $60 per hour. This is the same amount my VW dealer charges. Fortunately my VW is under warranty and I haven't had the "pleasure" of paying that amount. I haven't brought my car to the MB dealer for service since I am more of a DIYer. Though I may be going to them to get my rear springs installed. Mine are sagging a bit, it's real noticeable when somebody sits in back. I know I could probably get the springs cheaper through the partsshop, but as everyone knows, no shop is going to install parts you bought else where.

First off, it is not nosy to ask! I wish someone had told me how it is before I developped an obession with car maintenace.
Okay, so I have worked for a VW dealer in Ontario for a few years, although not Mercedes but a dealer anyways
Techs are underpaid. I will not become an apprentice despite the offers. I am in service or parts or clean up, not a tech. I work as a ski coach in the winters in Maine and make more money! Yes, the techs there own nice homes and probably pull in 60k a year cdn. I think they make $16-18 an hour, flat rate. Flat rate is the problem, you can make alot of money if your quick and get "juice" work, but that computer or wiring problem job will give you alot of stress when it takes double the book time, if the problem is ever found (intermittent). This is the biggest reason to avoid the industry. Stress, I see those guys go through hell everyday, they have to beat the clock cause the dealer overbooks (policy basically). So when a **** job comes along they get screwed and the the other techs get the work, not them. Then the foreman chews them out for being slow. Not a nice place to work. Tools do cost alot, probably the same as going to college for four years. The demand for techs around here is outrageous, but they still will not pay. Another problem is Wal-Mart, who pays licensed techs $10-12 hour. The dealers see techs working for so little and therefore figure $16 is plenty high. Soon, when enough dealers have over stressed the techs and they quit and go to the high tech industry, there will not be anyone to hire. The local schools are not promoting their apprenticeship programs due to government cut backs. No more educated techs. No one to fill the jobs that will soon be vacant. I know the same story applies for the local Mercedes dealers too, the owners treat their employees poorly.
NEVER take your car to a flat rate dealer, the service will be much better at a straight time dealer! The oil will actually be drained, things properly torqued, they have time to fix the car right, not rushing to ge the next car in. I cannot stand to watch a flat rate tech work, nothing but rushing and poor repairs/butchered cars. They fix the car, but abuse it in the process, and it is not fixed with longevity in mind.

Wow! These are some points that might bother me the next time I take my car to a dealer. As far as I know, I've never been anywhere that hasn't been flat rate. I get told how much it would cost for parts and how many hours it would take. This explains the 2 hours labor that I get charged for brakes!

Kuan

In My business as a computer technician, my time is by the hour, and if a job takes me 3, my clients get billed for 3 hours.

i do not schedule appointments back to back unless I know what is needed to finish the first appointment in time.

I am usually about 95% accurate in my time estimates as to whena job will be done.

The same should apply to the automotive repair industry. If a car comes in needing diagnostics, it should be sent to the diagnostics area then sent to a tech for the repairs to be done etc etc.

The problem with my business is that if I don't have any appointments I'm not being paid. (i own the place so if no business is coming in, I don't make money.) i would say that if someone is working full time and getting paid hourly, that even if they are sitting on their ass doing nothing all day because there was nothing to do, they still get paid.

When owning an independent shop for automotive repair, this is something the owner always has to be concerned with. His employees are being paid on a time basis and get paid whether there is a car to fix or not. Most people i know will not work on a job based pay system, where they only get paid if working on something.

I have done itmyself, for about 3 months beofre I decided that if i was going to be paid ona per job basis, then I might as well be in business for myself, at least that way when I am not working on a repair, I can be working on the business end of my business.

if you love cars, and love everything mechanical, and like to take things apart, and get a huge satisfaction when putting them back together, then you should follow your dream.

Over here, you can go to school to learn automotive repair etc, but its not something that is done quickly, it takes time and all.

I would think that if you are really interested in being a tech, and even more so working on mercedes, perhaps you can go apprentice in germany with MB, or perhaps you can find a small shop that needs help in exchange for knowledge and minimal pay.

just like the way the business works in hollywood, where everyone has to start out at the bottom (were not talking stars or celebs here, we are talking the people who make hollywood work) involves a lot of grunt work. my brother has been working at a talent management firm for the last 2 years, and before that he worked at another talent mamngement firm. They call him an assistant, but since he has been paying his dues tot he industry for the last 4 years, he will be promoted to a manager within the year.

For him, he has been payed very little, but the things he has learned and the connections and contacts he has made, are well worth the trade off. but later on when he has become a manager and is doing his thing, he will be making tremendous amounts of money and the payoff will be great.

But like any industry, you have to start somewhere, no one can just jump right in and make it to the top without getting their hands dirty for a while first.

In my business, I am doing all the computer repair work right now, but later on, I will have techs who get sent out while I stay in the office. but in my case, the office would have to be on the golf course... :) hehe

I dream to be able to sit on my as all day doing nothing while my business generates enough income for me to live well, and all.

but in order to get there, I have to do the grunt work and all for as long as is necessary.

To my clients, I am worth every penny, but to others, my prices are too expensive. Thats just the way it is, though I can say once a client has had me come by, they will contnue to peruse my services and pay my fees.

I think if you want to be an automotive tech, then by all means do it. If it is your dream, and if it most importantly makes you happy, then there is nothing wrong with it.

The problem today is that more and more people do things just for the money, end up working in a job they hate for 30 years, then retire and spend the rest of their lives regretting not following their dreams.

Do what makes you happy, because if you are doing something you love, then it really doesn't seem like work.

I love computers, so for me its not work, but rather its my hobby. I love to find the problems and fix them. it makes me feel good inside, and makes me feel like I have accomplished something.

The reward I feel when I have done a good job or fixed something is what keeps me going.

in one instance, I had a client who was told to replace his main board and processor.

I go, take a look at it, Change the video card, the system boots, I swap the old video card back in, the system is all set to go. total time: 5 minutes. - Total billing for the repair... $75. and that was discounted for the customer as a promotional thing.

now the customer was so pleased that he did not have to spend hundreds on new parts, that he gladly paid me my fees.

I could have been immoral and told him he needed to replace this part or that part, but I just don't work like that. I do not change parts unless absolutely necessary, and my customers get to benefit from my expertise in my field.

I would not have the knowledge without having trained in school and without having worked in the industry for the last several years. what school didn't teach me I learned in the real world.

School can only teach you so much, the real world can teach you much more. the trick is to put in 200% effort and take it seriously. you have to work hard to get what you want.

Thats my opinion on it. Though I did stray a bit off the topic. :) hehe

Alon

I have been paid on a flat-rate system most of my professional career. The way we do it is simple. Diagnostic time pays straight. That is, you punch the clock and that is what you make and the customer pays. After you find the problem, the replacement of the part pays on flat rate. That way, you never have to rush.

I know for a fact that most techs will slow their production my 35% or more when given a salary. I have seen this also cause MORE mistakes because a salary tech doesn't usually have to pay for the mistakes where as a flat rate tech does.

The techs in the shop I work in all are flat rate. We take care of our customers. The work you get depends more on proper management (I.E. happy techs, not pay scale) than anything else. If the shop you go to is poorly run, your work will be poorly done.

So what steps are taken to keep the Techs happy? Just an example or two would be fine for me. Maybe some of these steps can be applied to other businesses? Why do I ask? I am getting pretty sick & tired of the business that I am in. When people ask me about it, I tell them,: "you don't own the business, the business 'owns' you" And I don't mean financially...that part is fine, (just the other day we received another plaque to hang on the wall :) ) its the way that this particular business just seems to want to consume all that you are, and leave you with an empty shell resembling a once happy human. Everytime you think that you have someone that will work out, and that maybe this year you can take off more than just a week (we close once a year for a week), they end up leaving, or in one case a fellow "Baker acted" himself. And once again I end up holding the sht end of the stick. I cannot say that I haven't tried, I have, for too long actually, it has cost me alot, more that I care to admit. I am not quite sure what to do after the place sells, I have considered working down the street at an MB shop, I have been offered work there before, for basically the same money. It has since changed hands, and although me and the new owner get along well, it is too early to tell if he will pass along the same offer, if at all. I have also considered working at a MB shop further south, but I do not know much at all about how things are run there, and if y'all could give me a few insights as to how to spot a happy tech. I 'd appreciate it. Maybe I could even use some of those tips in my place, but then again, after nearly 12 years, I have had enough.
Thank you for your patience with my longwindedness, at least you have the option of scrolling through and I'll still think you read the whole thing. :D

Oh, in closing, I'd like to say that I bet that most of the time the tech does not get paid what he/she is worth, its usually, but not always, not enough, or too much.

-Larry

I have been a Mercedes tech for over 25 years. I began working on cars at home when I was 12 or so and got familiar with VW's about the time I began driving. Several years ago after a day at Bosch training school about 10 of us went to dinner together and realized that almost to the man VW was our entry into the German car field. I'm afraid that today there is no similar way of entry into this biz. I've met dozens of young men who have thought that this was somehow a glamorous career. Let me promise you it's not! The challenge of fighting to stay on top of technology, consistently do flawless work, compete for hours against your fellow workers, put up with the enviornmental pollution, the strain on your back and feet from standing for 90% of the day, the expense of maintaining a quality set of tools, the general lack of benefits, make this profession worth twice what many of us get. Look for old techs in most shops, they just don't exist. The strain of trying to make a living as a foreign car tech is more than 95% of us are willing to endure. But you knowwwww, I love cars. Especially German cars, Especially Mercedes Benz, call me a sucker or a kook. It is rewarding to evaluate, estimate, and ultimately complete a quality repair that you know most others can't, won't or don't care to do. I have 4 sons and I have never encouraged any of them to work on cars. Maybe this is blind negativity on my part, but I'm sure there are thousands of occupations that are rewarding, easier on your mind and body and have some type of retirement associated with them, almost non-existent in the car field. I have a sincere admiration for any man that has been able to stick with this profession for life. A couple of years ago I had the urge to go back to the dealership here in Indy. They wanted me badly, enough to offer me 12$ an hour, I nearly passed out! Today they get parts replacers from the local technical college. These are kids still living at home with Mom and Dad or as I have found in a high percentage of Men, they are married to a Girl who makes more money and has all the benefits required to get by today. Did someone hit a nerve here? Not really. But don't be critical of a person until you walk in ther shoes.

Our technicians are paid hourly with time and one half for overtime. They are paid a performance bonus based upon billed hours that can make up to 30% of their pay checks. The performance bonus was added to the pay they were getting about 8 years ago and has been most of the increase over the years.

In order to make 40k a year flagging 12 a flat rate hour one must bill 64.10 hours a week. This makes the conditions quoted above. Our average over eight techs is 35 billed hours a week with each tech working about 43 hours. In the business this is slightly above the average and considered poor. The difference between my best techs who turn 45-50 hours a week and dealer techs who turn 80-90 is mostly the systems. Flat rate/commision systems have placed a larcenest heart to those as big as Sears.

The real problem is that there IS a ceiling to what the public will pay for auto repair. When I was growing up, my richest freind's dad was a TV repair man (owned his own shop). Anyone know any rich TV repairmen today? Our public system for personal transportation is changing. Cars are being recycled with factory leasing and restoration - Ford now owns the largest string of salvage yards in the world. Cars like MB will probably have the last true craftsman as the rest of the industry makes disposable cars.

The question should not be if the techs are paid enough.The question should be should.the dead beats who wouldnt know there arse hole from an elephant be paid anything.Real techs are as rare as chickens teath.To many of the dregs that have stumbled into a Mercedes shop.Are not worth a crap.I would like to see from this site more info on who really gives a crap and can work on these cars.Michael

Michael,

Do I detect perhaps just a hint of bitterness in your writing? Not that I would debate the point extensively, but most shops do offer a warranty, of sorts, to assuage repeat problems.

That being said, from the perspective of most techs I’ve spoken with, the issue is that so many things suffer wear at the same time that it is not infrequent to solve one problem to have another rear it’s ugly head. Put differently, it would seem that almost never does any one thing go wrong at one time. When you couple this phenomena with the average tech that fixes a problem as it appears to them, only to find that it was really another, or additional problem that was what you noticed, you get both seemingly a repeat problem and then another problem. This amounts to frustration on everyone’s part and a bigger bill. How frequently this happens, and your temperament for such things will decide if you sell the “heap” or continue with it’s seemingly endless “restoration.”

As a case in point, I formerly had a ’91 300 TE which I named Moby. If you ever read the story you’d know that Moby Dick destroyed his Ishmael as Ishmael was determined to win the battle. In my case, after 2.5 years and somewhere between 40 and 50 trips for repairs (at little or no direct cost to me). I gave up, and bought a new ML. The point here is two fold. 1) Moby had a Starmark warranty. And as long as the warranty was active, the service department was happy to throw as many parts at the car as was necessary to solve his problems. But he came up with more problems than the service department could ever completely solve. After doing this for so long, I got tired of the trips to the dealer, the rental and loaner cars, and the too few brief periods of no problems with the car. After a while time becomes more costly than money. And point 2) is that sometimes you just can’t win with a car. At some point you decide if it’s wiser to sell and, if nothing else, stop your losses & frustration.

All of this said, there are incompetent techs out there. If they are incompetent enough it is to the advantage of the shop management to send them to the unemployment line. If customers are unhappy the shop will loose business. No one has enough customers to be truly careless about this. But there are usually so many people involved in a car repair that not infrequently a problem will happen…. Without ranting further, that phenomena why new vehicle sales will go on forever….

In the end you pays your money and takes your chances.

Personally, for these reasons and a lot more, I’d never own a MB without it having a GOOD warranty….which is why when I bought my ’92 400e (3 weeks ago, and which is being transported from NY to Seattle as I write this) I paid extra for a 4 year 48K mile warranty.

Best of luck, try not to be pissed at the techs, it is their job, their livelihood, their source of income and usually pride you are questioning!

…Tracy

Le benz back up Enough to read what I said Good techs where worth.In my many decades on this earth.I have seen the good the bad the ugly.I have run some Automobile dealerships in my time.I have gone so far as to invite a so called tech outside so we could discuss that techs ability.I do not need some pup pontificating on what I think.A friend that currently owns a dealership told me the otherday that there is a shortage of at least 60,ooo techs in the country.keep the froeydian analisis to yourself I will not read your mind do not try to read mine.Michael

I think that some frustration with dealer practices is evident.

That call is probably true for those on this forum. I have a crazy theory why this is so. The following is just wild speculation!

Most people who visit dealer service depts. have newer cars.

Most new car customers haven't seen the horrors (or pleasures, depending on which side of the fence you prefer) of owning an older Benz.

Most new car customers take their cars in for A or B service and not much more.

Most of these people know nothing about cars.

It's all covered under warranty anyway plus they get free coffee and croissants while watching CNN.

Or they can use one of the executive cubicles and get their email and faxin' done.

Most of them get a nice E-class loaner.

They leave happy.

They send the customer response card in rating the service department the best in the world. Straight A's across the board from the fresh ground gourmet coffee made with bottled water to the croissants from the New French Bakery, although, some say that it would have been a good idea to offer both, sweet and low AND equal.

Then there's a whole other class of Benz owner who isn't privy to the treatment stated above. Those who show up with greazy fingers and a broken part under their arms. You know who you are so own up. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the dealers don't see much of us so they think everything's hunky-dory and go upon their merry ways. Never again do they think about the poor guy who walked in and needed some real help. Perhaps if we would say something to them they would listen up.

Hey! only MHO.

Kuan



[Edited by kuan on 02-08-2001 at 04:47 PM]

Should Jason and myself bother with general automobile tech programs or just begin an extensive search for an apprenticeship at a dealership?


MANY THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION YOU'VE PROVIDED SO FAR!!!
WHAT SHOULD WE DO?
HIT THE BOOKS OR WRITE LETTERS AND MAKE APPOINTMENTS FOR AN APPRENTICESHIP?

SINCERELY, THANK YOU,
MIKE MCKINNEY
JASON SCHNEIDER

Go for the apprenticeship! Get in the field and play ball before you fork over thousands in education and realize what a mistake it was. I am VERY glad I worked for a dealer BEFORE going to school, boy would I have hated myself for spending a few years in school only to find out what I learned in a year on the job. You will not have a problem finding a job, there are shortages everywhere for bottom end jobs-lube techs, car washers, etc. Most will not sign the apprenticeship papers untill you work a few months and are deemed worthy of funding for a program (it costs them). Good luck!
On another note, I do agree the service advisors DO NOT KNOW what they are doing. At this particular VW dealer over six advisors have walked in a year (or fired), and they were DUMB! But then again, they were asked to work 12 hour days at substandard wages ($20-25k a year, 12 hours a day, CDN funds, few or no benefits). Again, pay is key, but I do not feel that the dealer would have to raise the hourly rate to pay the techs and advisors a couple more per hour, just open their wallets!
Greg

When I read this thread, I knew that it would grow!

We hired a tech from a dealer that was used to turning 60-70 hours a week at the dealer. When he came to the independent life, his hours dropped to about 40 hours a week. Once he said to me, I have never worked this hard for this little.

On the independent level, we can't afford to over charge. From what I learned from this tech, at the dealer, this is the normal. They use their pen to generate as much time as their tools. This was a powerfull learning tool for me. I started looking at the repair bills from the dealers and found some reasons that his hours dropped.

They charged .7 to test drive the car. We do this for free. They charge .2 for EACH bulb to replace. We do this for free. Diff service is extra at the EZ service, we do this included in the EZ price....The list is very long!

I still turn 60-70 hours a week, every week. Why? I don't take coffee or cigarette breaks. I don't stand and BS alot either. I just work. Plain and simple. I diagnose the car correctly and fix it in a timely manner.

OH yeah, his comeback rate was at least 10%, mine is .5% I think.


He is no longer with us, went back to the dealer to work less and get paid more. This is a fine policy with me, I'm just glad I don't own a new Mercedes that he services.


Sorry to whom this may offend. It is not meant that you all are this way, or that we independents are all straight. I have seen my fair share of the crooked ones. I just wanted to share something that did happen to me. Nothing more.

Benzmac, Your description of that experience seems to me to be right on the nose.

I have a client with a 3 month old C Class and the cars entire computer failed. She took it in, they replaced everything but the computer and took over 4 weeks to do it. They call her to have her come pick up the car, and its still doing the exact same thing. The Service advisor tells her what they replaced, and the computer was not on the list and when she took it in she told them the computer was on the fritz, but rather than replace it, they replaced every gauge in the car and everything else, radio, air con controls, command system and all, only to find out later that it was the computer as she had told them 4 weeks earlier.

They had the car for another week to replace the computer.

So essentially she has a car she has owned for 4 months, but driven for only 3.

The dealer seems to have spent a lot of time repairing things that didn't need repair because of two things, miscommunication between service advisor and tech, and improper diagnostics.

It takes talent to be a true technician, and every tech I have seen on this forum has the talent, the ambition, and the know how, with that extra sixth sense about things that make all the difference.

If every tech out there was like you guys, you'd see less new car sales because all the old cars would still be on the road.

Keep up the good work, you deserve everything that you have, and everything you have coming to you with all your hard work. its going to pay off for you whether spiritualy or financially.

I say you are not considered rich because of how much money you have. You are rich if your life is fullfilled by doing what you love, following your heart, and going after your dreams.

Alon

Shyne and Jason,

For what its worth;

1) Get involved in racing, preferably German car racing!
2) Go get an Mechanical Engineering Degree (borrow if you have to, everyone else does), you will not regret it in the long run as you will be able to steer your own path more than you might imagine.
3) Find like minded people so you can start your own business doing what YOU WANT! I do not pretend to know of the obstacles in doing this in Canada!

Are there "Tuner" shops in your area? Sounds like a direction to take if you don't want to relocate. Start small and grow at a natural pace, but don't rush things. You will figure it out in time.


Follow your Heart first, then your Mind! In essence, do what makes you Happy.

Hope this helps,

Ross

Well, there's not too much more I can add to this thread. Except....

Unfortunately, some of the techs at the dealerships who are making the big bucks are the ones who are the butchers and cut tons of corners just to make a buck. The dealers know it goes on but ignore it completely because those guys are their big money makers. The guys who struggle and bang their heads against the wall for hours on a problem are the ones who get screwed (believe me, I know). Matter of fact, I got so fed up with seeing this at the dealership, that I have since gone back to Precision Motorcars (independent MB shop in Cincinnati). Like Steve, I stick with this profession because I love Mercedes automobiles and wouldn't trade what I do for any other job in the world (well, ok, I could think of one or two jobs) but I go into work happy every day and that's what counts. Keep those vintage MBs rolling!

The situation that Alon described is probably very common among all makes of vehicles. Dealerships love "swapping boxes" under warranty because they can charge it to the manufacture. Unfortunately nobody is being taught, or taking the time to learn, how to repair something, just remove and replace. I am an Avionics Technician in the Air Force. The first aircraft I worked on was the B-52 Bomber. That is so old, the last one was made in 1961. So the wiring on this aircraft was old and brittle, so electrical problems were common. You learned real quick how to properly troubleshoot and repair things. Now I work on a newer aircraft, a KC-10. This is a military version of a DC-10. On this aircraft there is little in way of wiring problems, just faulty computers, "boxes", or indicators. Anyone coming into the Air Force and working first on a KC-10 or even newer, C-17 will only learn how to swap "boxes".
I think this relates to the car repair industry today. Everything is made to be removed and replaced. It saves time and money for them, but nobody learns how to actually repair anything. It will probably get to the point where you won't even need a screw driver or wrench to work on a car. Everything will be taken out by quick release latches. Everything now, to me at least, is just black box engineering.

Being an independant tech is all I've ever done for a living....been paid flate rate nearly my whole career.

Now, I could tell you all of my thoughts on this subject, but this would end up being a huge post..........So-I'll try to keep it brief.

Next time you think that your tech makes too much, ask him where he lives & go see his home.

I hear the crying & moaning about how much repairs cost from people every day.
What I still don't get is WHY,,,,WHY do they b!@# at me about it?
Did I make them buy the car? NO!

Do I use their car every day? NO!

Am I the one who is neglecting to do the proper maintenance? NO

Did I engineer or build the car? NO

Did I break the car? NO

Did I make up the prices of the parts from thin air? NO

NO, all I do is fix the g**d@#n things.
That's it, you bring it to me broken, and I can fix it.

Now, back to looking at your tech's home.....
Would you trade your house for your tech's? I didn't think so!

Funny how I have folks that make more in a week than I EARN in a month,yet they behave like I'm trying to swindle them out of their last dime!

If I could do something else and still support my family,(yeah we have families to support too!), I wouldn't walk away from this business,,,,,,,,,,, I'D RUN!!!
I'd run away, lauging hysterically!

The problem with the industry is that most good techs share my feelings!
Being under paid isn't even at the top of the complaint list. It is actually down after feeling unapreciated, and not respected for their skill & knowledge levels.

I'm not saying it is all bad.I still have the occaisonal "really nice" customer, who'll bring cookies or send a thank you note, for the services we provide. I even have a few that are very trusting & pleasant to do business with. The problem is that there are sooo few of them.

Repairing the cars is the easy part. Trying to find reasons to do it for folks who treat you like crap,,,,that's what makes it hard.
Especially when I have to write about 20gs worth of checks every month, just to be able to unlock my doors in the morning and turn on my "open" sign.

Alain
Your 100% right we are Technician not a Magician......
by the way we don't work for FREE !!if you don't know
how........pay me I'll fix for you because I have
the family to feed.

With this thread I could quickly forget where I am. The technician networks I participate in could fill books with rants about the abuse we take working for the public.

Boy, should you here the comparisons to doctors. Many a tech has expressed how unfair it is that a doctor gets paid for testing without results, care without expectations, combacks as further revenue, and getting paid to "practice" medicine.

Can you imagine how insulting it is to have someone ask if I charge to diagnose a problem.

Hello,

Would anyone have any idea what the salary range is for techs here in Canada?

I have spoken to my highschool auto class teacher. His brother in law is a MB tech. The teacher mentioned that MB pays his borther in law about $28/h CDN. He has been at MB for about 2 years.

E300D, I remember talking to a Canadian student in Chicago at Bosch technical school a few years ago and an interesting part of their pay system was that they can only charge a flat hourly rate. This has something to do with the laws in Canada. In the US most shops work on a flat rate system, This system assigns a specific time to a given repair. Lets say a water pump replacement on a E320 would be specified to take 3.5 hours, then that's what the tech would get paid. If the tech has done a few of these water pumps before and has learned a few short-cuts or is just really working fast and accurately that day, he might get the job done in lets say 2.5 hours. He still would get paid for the 3.5 hrs that the job called for. This system can be widely abused or it can be honestly and faithfully followed. I have to say that I've seen it work both ways. Over the years I have often have been able to average 55-60 hours of paid work in a 40 hour week. This, I think is considered a good efficiency rate for a quality tech. Several years ago I considered going to work for the local MB dealer who offered me $12 an hour, while they were charging $80 an hour. I couldn't see how I could make a good living at that pay, but they assured me that their top techs averaged over 80 hours a week. That would approach $1000 a week. The killer is that the dealer would charge $6400 to pay a tech $960, plus some benefits of course.
I guess that if a tech in Canada were to make $28 an hour and get paid for 40 hours then the pay becomes equal. The other part is that he probably still is turning out 55-60 hours worth of work in the US systems scale. I would have to say that if an average tech could make $50K a year in a clean, organized, friendly shop that would be a pretty good living. I'm sure that many a college educated person would consider that a good raise from what they're making. Good Luck in your pursuits

Very interesting topic. I would like to encourage shop owners, as well as technicians, to define what a "good technician" is with respect to the automotive repair industry today. :cool:

Here I would like to comment on the owners of private shops. There are many great technicians and shop owners out there. But in expensive areas of this country, you will have a hard time finding them. Instead I think they learn that the right combination of greed, arrogance, and ignorance yields them more money than direct and to-the-point troubleshooting.

Clearly there are some good ones out there. I wish I lived near Steve's shop for example. Merely his credentials alone put him well over the top of shops in my area. His ability to communicate, very clear technical knowledge, and diagnostic capability appear to be well beyond what I've seen in my area.

But if you open a shop in an expensive area, apparently you can do very well. Here's what I have seen.

Where I live, the owner of a local 8 bay shop has at least a few private jets, he does very well. He is never there and has several expensive hobbies according to several people I spoke to. The shop is expensive but known to be one of the better ones. They are arrogant and the Internet has a number of reports about surprising experiences where they embarass customers. They did this to me, and I can tell you I was nothing but open, generous, and communicative. I had also already spent $6000 with them a few years ago for work done well. Instead you get pissed-on because the mechanic is having a bad day and decides to walk by you and mouth-off. I realize it's hard to believe, you just have to be there to believe it. By the way, this is a good shop for the area and may very well take my car back there if I have to (if I absolutely can't fix it myself). If you take your car in there, it does have an excellent chance of getting fixed right the first time. You will likely be humiliated in the process though.

Then we have others who I proved and witnessed breaking my car and overcharging me an arm-and-a-leg. I run my own business and I'm very much into making sure that others are treated well in a business transaction because I know what it's like to have the screws put to me. But most of the shops in this area are some combination of arrogant, inept, and greedy. I've seen it all. I've taken my car in one shop, gave them as much as $5000 in one instance, and got it back broken worse than it came in there. What was the cause? Something they didn't fix in the first place was STILL broken and something NEW they broke when they were addressing something that was fine. In my case I discovered numerous problems including seals with big vacuum leaks (they didn't replace seals when replacing a component, eg a fuel distributor), a new catalytic converter that hits the engine when I turn, fuel pouring from a newly installed fuel distributor causing a VERY dangerous situation, and a much-too-rich running condition. To put an end to this I learned myself, leveraging this site including the help of many GOOD TECHNICIANS and owners here. I found these issues and either fixed them myself or took them back to the mechanic and stood over them while they fixed it. I now have a a 20 year old SL that purs like a kitten (very very smooth idle), has new car emissions, incredible gas mileage, cool as a cucumber, and incredible power. It is really better than new. But that was me going in there and fixing everything and spending, by the time I was done with their work and mine, probably like $7000 plus my time. Now, if there was just one decent shop in this area that could take care of this and that I could trust, I would have had them do all of it. They could have easily made a big profit at much fewer dollars if they were knowledgeable. There's a reason why people are afraid to take their cars into mechanics. Because good honest shops are hard to find. It's just a fact. If you are lucky enough to live near one of the mechanics posting on this site, you are very lucky. For the rest of us, it's hard work and people will vent on the subject.

While not directly related to MB techs, I own an independant motorcycle repair shop. We have been in business about 12 years, and today I have 2 "mechanics" that work for me.

My head guy has years of experience fixing a wide variety of things (grew up in the communist bloc), and got his official training from a two year stint at MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute), followed up with 4 years at a dealership doing line work. He has been with me now for about two years. His tool kit costs under $1000 (he uses the cheapest he can find, not chinese stuff, but lots of Craftsmen acquired used), and he makes about $50k working 25 hours/week. (He comes in, gets his stuff done, and goes home - no BS.) He is certainly a unique and rare exception.

My other guy is a recent MMI grad. Owns over $5000 in tools, maybe much more. Works 40+ hours/week, and has a hard time keeping above $20k. He is much more typical.

On the other hand, I have no "official" training, although I consider several years of engineering school to be valuable in what I do today. I own over $30k worth of tools, and work at least 50 hours/week. I don't pull $30k except on the best years, but my hope is that the investment in the business will pay off. (This is a major gamble...)

-David