As if collecting classic and antique cars is not tough enough, they are going to punish us, if we paint our own cars.

http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/cgi-bin/user/forum.cgi?select=%2Fclc%2Fclcgenl%2F74067

I better stock up for repainting my diesels, since they outlive the factory paint and clear coat.:eek:

Yea, I am a subscriber to Hemmings Motor email newsletter and kinda hated to see that. Not so much for myself (I don't do body work) but for some friends of mine.

I've painted cars before, and I'm sure I'll need to again in the future. This is getting out of hand. It's bad enough I've had to watch the price of paint go up from $10/qt to $48/qt. Now I'll have to watch out for the "painting police" when I shoot my cars on my driveway. Is it that big a problem for me to paint a car every three years?

Yet we're still allowed to barbeque...go figure!!!

From that site :

"The EPA is planning to implement a national rule which will require a license to be able purchase and use automotive finishes. This means the days of doing your own restoration will soon be over.
The main push behind this law is from the Body Shop Assoc. Their argument is, they are forced to comply with all of the EPA regulations and garages and backyard shops are not.Therefor it creates an unfair situation(it's a very good argument). So the EPA has devised this plan to answer their cries. Hobbyist(us) will be forced to have all of their refinishing performed by licensed body shops. "

I am glad that the Body Shop Association was honest in stating its motives.. it is time that all these money motivated laws be taken off the books.
Most regulatory or professional organizations are not out to improve anything other than the pocket books of THEIR members...

As an agricultural person ( farmer ) I am required to take courses in chemicals and the laws which govern them.... and to keep records of what I spray and the conditions at the time... I have no problem with that.... and for the record I use only two... 2-4-d.. the most used hormone in the world... and glycosophate...generic Roundup which has no residual soil activity....

MY COMPLAINT ? City dwellers can go and buy pesticides and herbicides even if they have an IQ of 60 and can't read... and sure don't have to keep any records... and the application of too much fertilizer on yards of city dwellers trying to be greener than their neighbor is a major reason that phosphates were taken out of soaps..... which was the main ingrediant which actually CLEANED stuff...

But do you think anyone of those agencies has any intention of trying to address the overuse and maluse by city dwellers ? There would be an uprising....no, they can require it of us and enforce it... so they do that.. even though they will all agree to the facts I have stated about where the abuses happen.

From that site :

"The EPA is planning to implement a national rule which will require a license to be able purchase and use automotive finishes. This means the days of doing your own restoration will soon be over.
The main push behind this law is from the Body Shop Assoc. Their argument is, they are forced to comply with all of the EPA regulations and garages and backyard shops are not.Therefor it creates an unfair situation(it's a very good argument). So the EPA has devised this plan to answer their cries. Hobbyist(us) will be forced to have all of their refinishing performed by licensed body shops. "

I am glad that the Body Shop Association was honest in stating its motives.. it is time that all these money motivated laws be taken off the books.
Most regulatory or professional organizations are not out to improve anything other than the pocket books of THEIR members...

As an agricultural person ( farmer ) I am required to take courses in chemicals and the laws which govern them.... and to keep records of what I spray and the conditions at the time... I have no problem with that.... and for the record I use only two... 2-4-d.. the most used hormone in the world... and glycosophate...generic Roundup which has no residual soil activity....

MY COMPLAINT ? City dwellers can go and buy pesticides and herbicides even if they have an IQ of 60 and can't read... and sure don't have to keep any records... and the application of too much fertilizer on yards of city dwellers trying to be greener than their neighbor is a major reason that phosphates were taken out of soaps..... which was the main ingrediant which actually CLEANED stuff...

But do you think anyone of those agencies has any intention of trying to address the overuse and maluse by city dwellers ? There would be an uprising....no, they can require it of us and enforce it... so they do that.. even though they will all agree to the facts I have stated about where the abuses happen.

And us citidiots are buying up fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, and tons of other chemicals then dumping them on the lawn which drains right back into our drinking water, the environment, etc. Just so our McMansions will have nice pretty green lawns so the neighbors won't look at us funny. But if you want to be in the "keepin' up with the Jones'" clique that's the protocol. I say f that. :rifle:

I smell an r-12 cause... Based on bogus science, and most likely less damaging then the (as said) lawn care crap that most everybody uses (myself included)............... Dammit, the laqure stuff is the most durable right? I want to paint my car eventually, but I dont know anybody who can repaint it correctly yet. If I were to buy some paint "for safe keeping" how long does it keep, and what kind's the most durable (and avalibal in GREEN)

~Nate

Any 8th grade lawyer could beat these guys in court. It is just a big money grab they don't want you or small (non union) shops working on their own cars and that means big money for them. All a good lawyer has to do is bring that up and also that the same laws already apply to everyone. They are just trying to squash the little guy like all good liberals do through government regulation and phoney trumped up environmental claims.... Indy

I wonder how much of a "campaign contribution" it cost them to get this legislation introduced?

Next thing they are going to make it illegal to wash out own cars....


And people wonder why I reffer to them as the Environazis allong with certain "green" groups...

Wow, have to love government stepping in on more and more activities... :rolleyes:

I better stock up for repainting my diesels, since they outlive the factory paint and clear coat.:eek:

Wouldn't hurt to stock up anyway, whunter ... prices will be negatively affected by crude oil $$$$$$$$ as it is.

I perfer to call them Environmental Cases... :) We actually think like the majority. Why should a fringe group of people be able to shake us down using our legislators.. I say keep an eye if the actual vote ever comes up just like the alaska oil thing who ever votes in favor of the paint Regulations or like in the other issue: keeping competition out of the oil industry by not letting them drill in alaska vote them out... They are the fringe and need to be dispersed from office accordingly... Indy

This ban would simply create another black market.

On a similar note, This reminds me of the time 20 years ago, where I wanted to buy pins to rekey some tumblers. At the time we had three Chryslers that was shared among family members. Rather than carrying three sets of keys in my pocket, I would only need to carry one set that would fit all three vehicles. The locksmith told me I had to be a licensed locksmith to purchase tumbler pins!......Why???.... It wasn't a question of security if you want to change the pins in a tumbler!! It was an obvious policy to exclude others from their trade and make more business.

Same story when I went to buy an electric ignitor for my furnace.

Black Market = Free market... plain and simple...

Regulation by legislators just shows their contempt for the average person. They think we are all just a bunch of idiots and have no idea how to do things for ourselves. In their minds we are unqualified to make every day rational decisions.. They think they are appointed by some higher authority to do it for us.. I say Get rid of them in the next election... Indy

We can talk all we want, but we have to contact our congress and senators to let them know exactly how we feel... We are the majority, not some auto body workers special interest group. Call today and also vote thats the only way to make a difference... Indy

This ban would simply create another black market.

On a similar note, This reminds me of the time 20 years ago, where I wanted to buy pins to rekey some tumblers. At the time we had three Chryslers that was shared among family members. Rather than carrying three sets of keys in my pocket, I would only need to carry one set that would fit all three vehicles. The locksmith told me I had to be a licensed locksmith to purchase tumbler pins!......Why???.... It wasn't a question of security if you want to change the pins in a tumbler!! It was an obvious policy to exclude others from their trade and make more business.



Add to that speedometer gears. Just try and buy a gear from a speedometer repair shop, even offer them 20 bucks for a gear that probably costs them 50 cents and they still won't sell it to you but they are happy to "repair" the speedometer for $150.

Everyone on this forum really should contact the people listed on this website:

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may2005/guest.cfm

I will!

Don't plan on painting your car? What's next? Changing your own radiator fluid? Your own oil?

I think that the big shops that have made the investment have a legitimate beef. This is a tempest in a teapot anyway; very, very few private persons paint their own cars. A better answer would be to crack down on smaller shops.

Maybe a good compormise if all else fails would allow a person to buy a few gallons of paint and enough thinner to paint a car every few years.

The people making the laws obviously have too much time on their hands. We need to have a big layoff-at the Government.

The people making the laws obviously have too much time on their hands. We need to have a big layoff-at the Government.
Amen to that.
Make them part time, so they must get a real job, and feel the pain of their foolishness.

Here's a question: What does getting a license entail? Maybe if someone's really dedicated to doing their own body work, he could simply get licensed to do so. There are varying degrees of complication when it comes to licenses ... after all, we need licenses to drive, hunt, sell crap on the street corner or own a dog.

A better answer would be to crack down on smaller shops.


Probably a good idea here ... not even so much "shops," but guys who have a garage set-up and do "under-the-table" jobs for people they know or even just flat-out unlicensed business. I know of a few people who do this. It's not like they advertise, but they have a little on-the-side situation going.

Some guy working on his restoration project of 20 years by himself in his backyard is hardly, in my opinion, a threat to either the environment or body shops (the whole idea of restoring a car is to personalize the restoration, if you ask me, and outsource only for the things you have to). These probably aren't the people this law was designed to target.

I find it hard to believe anyone working on a "restoration project" it going to spray his car in the back yard anyway. How can you do a respectable paint job without the proper equipment (including a spray booth)? I suspect very few people are actually affected by this. I would guess that this will be like R-12, in that anyone who really wants to buy the stuff will be able to get a license without much trouble. Just my opinion.

I find it hard to believe anyone working on a "restoration project" it going to spray his car in the back yard anyway. How can you do a respectable paint job without the proper equipment (including a spray booth)? I suspect very few people are actually affected by this. I would guess that this will be like R-12, in that anyone who really wants to buy the stuff will be able to get a license without much trouble. Just my opinion.

You would be surprised the quality of job you can do in your garage if you take your time and learn the basics..........you can rival a $3K - $4K job if you have any talent at all.

I find it hard to believe anyone working on a "restoration project" it going to spray his car in the back yard anyway. How can you do a respectable paint job without the proper equipment (including a spray booth)? I suspect very few people are actually affected by this. I would guess that this will be like R-12, in that anyone who really wants to buy the stuff will be able to get a license without much trouble. Just my opinion.
#1. Must be a registered body repair facility, or prove you currently work at one.
#2. Must have all approved equipment, and prove it.
#3. Must pay a couple hundred dollars per year for the license.
#4. Must take eighteen hours ($1,200.00 USD) of accredited continuing paint training every year, and prove it before they accept your license fee.

I know of a guy who does some real nice work on the side. He is older and somewhat retired and just wants extra cash. He painted a 450SL for $600 that is just awsome. The trick is you have to bring the car to him ready to shoot. He will lay some awsome paint down but will not do any prep. I don't think this law will stop him. I'll slip him an extra $100 if I go that route to forget about the law. :D

I was talking to a car guy who livesd in southern CA right next to the border. He said him and his budies just bring there cars to Mexico to be painted. I guess the work is great and so is the price. Also the Mexicans don't care if you have any cleaners or paint left over they just dump it behind the shop.:D

#1. Must be a registered body repair facility, or prove you currently work at one.
#2. Must have all approved equipment, and prove it.
#3. Must pay a couple hundred dollars per year for the license.
#4. Must take eighteen hours ($1,200.00 USD) of accredited continuing paint training every year, and prove it before they accept your license fee.

They just want the money. And you can bet that the fees will go up and up after they get their foot in the door.

Cheers,

Bill

#1. Must be a registered body repair facility, or prove you currently work at one.
#2. Must have all approved equipment, and prove it.
#3. Must pay a couple hundred dollars per year for the license.
#4. Must take eighteen hours ($1,200.00 USD) of accredited continuing paint training every year, and prove it before they accept your license fee.
If that's the case, it will pretty much eliminate the DIY'ers and the unlicensed operations. I bet Macco with sell a lot more $99 paint jobs (or whatever they cost these days).

I find it hard to believe anyone working on a "restoration project" it going to spray his car in the back yard anyway. How can you do a respectable paint job without the proper equipment (including a spray booth)?

Well I meant someone with a spary booth out back ... I guess I was thinking of a very large, rural backyard with room for some structure, not somebody's 50 sq ft plot.

Well I meant someone with a spary booth out back ... I guess I was thinking of a very large, rural backyard with room for some structure, not somebody's 50 sq ft plot.
Well, it sounds like he's going to have to become a "registered body repair facility" if he want's to buy paint. Of course, we live in a country where every middle school student can buy cocaine and automatic weapons, so it probably won't be that hard to buy paint under the counter.:rolleyes:

Someone just said: "Probably a good idea here ... not even so much "shops," but guys who have a garage set-up and do "under-the-table" jobs for people they know or even just flat-out unlicensed business. I know of a few people who do this. It's not like they advertise, but they have a little on-the-side situation going."

Why a licence? All a licence is for so the govt can tax you. They use phoney baloney excuses like environmental protection to buffalo idiots like you into going along with it When in reality they want to steal your hard earned money from you. What is wrong with earning a little money on the side?. Instead of fighting to get your friends taxed along with you, you should be fighting to get your taxes eliminated and asking your friends for help. This is the U.S.A there shouldn't be such a thing as under the table jobs and black market.. This is a free country!... It's Supposed to be anyway. People like you sell your self down the river and don't even know it.......

And the person who said: "he could simply get licensed to do so" Yeah! let the government rape you it aint so bad everybody else does it... Yeah Right! Thats what our founding fathers intended.. Haaa! Haaa!.... Sheese! Our education system is pathetic..... Indy

Well, it sounds like he's going to have to become a "registered body repair facility" if he want's to buy paint. Of course, we live in a country where every middle school student can buy cocaine and automatic weapons, so it probably won't be that hard to buy paint under the counter.:rolleyes:

Full auto has been illegal since 1934 but requires a FF license if you want one.. You're right about cocaine.

Full auto has been illegal since 1934 but requires a FF license if you want one.. You're right about cocaine.
I was exaggerating a little, only the high school kids can get full auto weapons.:D

You would be surprised the quality of job you can do in your garage if you take your time and learn the basics..........you can rival a $3K - $4K job if you have any talent at all.

I agree, the magic is in the hard work (and art) of preparation, and practice - lots of it - before actually shooting the paint. First-timers NEVER understand these things. The fundamental difference between shooting a car and painting anything else is that automotive paint will not hide in any way, shape, or form, imperfection-unlike painting your house trim, for example - and the better the paint job, the more obvious imperfection becomes.

Unless an amazing confluence of a perfect overcast (but not humid or rainy) 70 degree day, stable humidity, and a REALLY dust-free environment takes place (meaning, you didn't do the prep where you paint), and you have a very good compressor and gun or two (think $500-1000 total), I think it's almost impossible to do a really good paint job at home, anyway. But I've done "acceptable" ones in light or metallic colors.

I may be out of touch, but have been in the autobody business for 22 years and this is the first I have read or heard about this legislation. Most of the trade magazines would have touched on something like this, but haven't heard a word. And in all honesty, I don't care how many of you do your own paint and body work. We will still get our share and keep a 2 to 3 week backlog,,, I don't really need or want any more. By the way, paint in a sealed container will last just about forever. It is the solvents that evaporate once they are introduced into the mix. And I respectfully disagree that laquers are the most durable finishes. The two stage urethene clearcoats are the only way to go IMHO.

I don't know if asking your congress-person to step in will do much good, as they gave the EPA the power to do pretty much whatever they wanted, decades ago. Here in the northeast, oil-based house paint was just outlawed, at least in the gallon sizes (They'll still let us have it in quarts in case we need to touch up a windowsill or birdhouse) I could still smuggle in gallons from down south, but supposedly, it's big penalties if they catch me.

With enough regulations, we can all become criminals!

Happy Motoring, Mark

Someone just said: "Probably a good idea here ... not even so much "shops," but guys who have a garage set-up and do "under-the-table" jobs for people they know or even just flat-out unlicensed business. I know of a few people who do this. It's not like they advertise, but they have a little on-the-side situation going."

Why a licence? All a licence is for so the govt can tax you. They use phoney baloney excuses like environmental protection to buffalo idiots like you into going along with it When in reality they want to steal your hard earned money from you. What is wrong with earning a little money on the side?. Instead of fighting to get your friends taxed along with you, you should be fighting to get your taxes eliminated and asking your friends for help. This is the U.S.A there shouldn't be such a thing as under the table jobs and black market.. This is a free country!... It's Supposed to be anyway. People like you sell your self down the river and don't even know it.......

And the person who said: "he could simply get licensed to do so" Yeah! let the government rape you it aint so bad everybody else does it... Yeah Right! Thats what our founding fathers intended.. Haaa! Haaa!.... Sheese! Our education system is pathetic..... Indy

Indy, I think you're taking what I said in the wrong direction ... I'm not necessarily promoting the idea of regulating everything ... just saying that things ARE regulated, and people manage to survive it. I love the idea of free market all over, and personally, I think if some guy wants to paint cars in a home-made getup, that's fine. I doubt it would put body shops under. I'm a conservative person and not a fan of gov't regulation, especially excessive regulation, so I'm not cheering this on. I was simply saying that I don't think it's going to be the violent death of all DIY paint repair ... I was only trying to convey that there is still hope.

This topic could go in all sorts of directions ... there are a lot of people who feel that automatic weapons and cocaine should be free-market items, too, and have fairly reasonable arguements to back that view. I wasn't trying to open that can of worms ... just saying ' hey, let's not panic'

If they start banning this, it will be just yet another product that you get in mexico while you are visiting. *cough cheap R-12*

Paint is expensive enough as it is that you don't just go drop 20 bucks and then poision the environment.

WHen I painted my 69 bug it turned out very nice. Made up my own booth and had it ventillated and everything. It was a year long restoration.

They should take all the time and money they want to put into this, and instead just go check up on the bigger fish and stop trying to help the bastards make more money.

If I have the ability to properly prepare, sand, and shoot a very respectable paint job on any of my cars in my own garage, I should not be required to output that much cash. What warrents such expensive costs?

This news has seriously upset me. :furious3:

I garuntee it won't stop anyone around here from going down to the parts store and just snagging up a gallon, licence or not.

What do the buisnesses have to say about this?

EDIT: Saw post 33...interesting info...I wonder with how many people this is the case?

Hi Whunter,

Some more thoughts on this:

1) The EPA administrators that are behind this regulation probably have government maintained cars assigned to them. They really aren't concerned about maintenance costs as someone else pays the bills.
2) Since our government has ever mounting debt, I suggest that these administrators do their part and become equal to the constituents they purport to represent; i.e. take away their government sponsored cars, and make them vulnerable to the overpriced service they're legislating.

This could be the focus of a grassroots movement amongst us car restorers. I suspect that if we raise a fuss and expect the government types to sacrifice their entitlements, we might get a change of heart. I guarantee that we'll get their attention and it'll be more than the usual lip service.

Any thoughts??

Hi Whunter,

Some more thoughts on this:

1) The EPA administrators that are behind this regulation probably have government maintained cars assigned to them. They really aren't concerned about maintenance costs as someone else pays the bills.
2) Since our government has ever mounting debt, I suggest that these administrators do their part and become equal to the constituents they purport to represent; i.e. take away their government sponsored cars, and make them vulnerable to the overpriced service they're legislating.

This could be the focus of a grassroots movement amongst us car restorers. I suspect that if we raise a fuss and expect the government types to sacrifice their entitlements, we might get a change of heart. I guarantee that we'll get their attention and it'll be more than the usual lip service.

Any thoughts??
The only thing you can do with entrenched bureaucrats is fire them.:)

ha. whats next needing a license to take a piss?

I have distain for EPA types, they are ruining our country with this type of crap

ha. whats next needing a license to take a piss?

I have distain for EPA types, they are ruining our country with this type of crap

Been that way for years. They've just got more pull these days.

I am in furniture restoration and the regs there are getting worse every year. Sooner or later I won't be able to get lacquer for furniture which brings me to my next question.....Why can I get combustable lacquer but no paint? Only diff is the pigments.

Kinda like a seat belt law but you don't have to wear a helmet on your motorcycle.:confused:

Cheers,

Bill

The EPA has done a wonderful job in the past of cleaning up the filth in our industrialized country. 40 years ago pollution was getting out of control. The problem is that they have built an empire of themselves and keep looking for more issues to campaign against. Now that they've won their campaigns they simply need to downsize (a lot!) and maintain their function as policing the policies that presently exist, and not keep making work for themselves!

ha. whats next needing a license to take a piss?

I have distain for EPA types, they are ruining our country with this type of crap

Are you kidding you already need a license to do that.

Where I live if you are seen/caught taking a quick leak outside in the corner of your back yard you can be arrested and if convicted you will go on the record as a sex offender just like the real world wacko sex offenders !

Having grown up on a farm this puts me at risk.

Are you kidding you already need a license to do that.

Where I live if you are seen/caught taking a quick leak outside in the corner of your back yard you can be arrested and if convicted you will go on the record as a sex offender just like the real world wacko sex offenders !

Having grown up on a farm this puts me at risk.

You've got to be kidding. Too many regs in this country.

Ever pee on the electric fence?:eek:

Cheers,

Bill

WHAT!!!

Around here if an officer of the law came into my forest of a back yard and told me that I was violating the law by simply taking a leak, I would be rather upset.

The dog does it....:D :D

they gave the EPA the power to do pretty much whatever they wanted, decades ago.

Except regulate chemical plants. :rolleyes: Go figure.

They way I see it, the EPA should place strict regulations and standards on those who manufacture paint, make all paints environmentally safe, then allow consumers to use as much as they want, when and where they want. But of course, that would be too logical.

Kinda like a seat belt law but you don't have to wear a helmet on your motorcycle.:confused:

Cheers,

Bill

My favorite (and I'm not sure if and where it's still a law) is the law that you have to have a helmet on a motorcycle, but don't have to wear it. Just as long as you can strap it on as you fly airborne toward the pavement ...

My favorite (and I'm not sure if and where it's still a law) is the law that you have to have a helmet on a motorcycle, but don't have to wear it. Just as long as you can strap it on as you fly airborne toward the pavement ...
When I lived in RI, a long time ago, the driver wasn't required to wear a helmet but the passenger was.:confused:

When I lived in RI, a long time ago, the driver wasn't required to wear a helmet but the passenger was.:confused:

Try sitting in traffic on a 90+ degree day......wearing the presure cooker.

it is a case of heat stroke waiting to happen.

Try sitting in traffic on a 90+ degree day......wearing the presure cooker.

it is a case of heat stroke waiting to happen.
I agree, I usually only use mine in the cold and/or rain.

My favorite (and I'm not sure if and where it's still a law) is the law that you have to have a helmet on a motorcycle, but don't have to wear it. Just as long as you can strap it on as you fly airborne toward the pavement ...

That stupid law was in effect when Md. had a no helmet policy. It was there because riders would go into another state and need their helmet to ride in that state.

The above was when Pa. had a helmet law and Md. had a no helmet policy. NOW in Md. you have to wear a helmet and Pa. you don't.:confused:

I think we need regulations to regulate the regulators.:D

Cheers,

Bill

That stupid law was in effect when Md. had a no helmet policy. It was there because riders would go into another state and need their helmet to ride in that state.

The above was when Pa. had a helmet law and Md. had a no helmet policy. NOW in Md. you have to wear a helmet and Pa. you don't.:confused:

I think we need regulations to regulate the regulators.:D

Cheers,

Bill
I think helmets should be mandatory for anyone under 18 and with less than 3 years on a motorcycle endorsement. And voluntary for the rest of us.

I think helmets should be mandatory for anyone under 18 and with less than 3 years on a motorcycle endorsement. And voluntary for the rest of us.
Sounds reasonable, but tough to enforce. Do you have helmet laws in VA?

Sounds reasonable, but tough to enforce. Do you have helmet laws in VA?Unfortunately...along with very hot, very humid summers.

Perfect combination for heat stroke, without factoring in world class traffic jams to make it even worse.

I think helmets should be mandatory for anyone under 18 and with less than 3 years on a motorcycle endorsement. And voluntary for the rest of us.

I think any bone head...no pun intended there:D ....who does not wear a helmet is foolish anyway. My helmet has saved my life more than once and I've got the 8" scar [47 stitches WITH HELMET } on my bald head to prove it. Without the helmet in that crash I would've died and almost did with it on!

I mean if you don't want to wear your helmet, fine. But if you get into an accident and wind up in the ICU, I DO NOT want to pay for your bills.

I reach for me helmet before I reach for my key. And Pa. has a no helmet law at present.

Wore my seat belt too before it was a law. Still a PIA but it does save lives.

Cheers,

Bill

Unfortunately...along with very hot, very humid summers.

Perfect combination for heat stroke, without factoring in world class traffic jams to make it even worse.
That sucks, move west.

That sucks, move west.
Family, friends and job are here however.....

BHD's area is notorious for traffic jams. Terrible down that way.

Humid here too but we keep moving. Maybe an occasional pause to let a herd of deer cross.

Cheers,

Bill

BHD's area is notorious for traffic jams. Terrible down that way.

Humid here too but we keep moving. Maybe an occasional pause to let a herd of deer cross.

Cheers,

Billyeah...only LA is rated worse by the government....

yeah...only LA is rated worse by the government....

Is that right? You guys are second on the list?

Man, all the more reason to use 301 when i go down that way....

Cheers,

Bill

Is that right? You guys are second on the list?

Man, all the more reason to use 301 when i go down that way....

Cheers,

Billread that in the Washington post this year.....we even beat NYC...

but thats not really something you want bragging rights to.

BHD's area is notorious for traffic jams. Terrible down that way.

Humid here too but we keep moving. Maybe an occasional pause to let a herd of deer cross.

Cheers,

Bill
I hate driving around DC, fortunately I don't have to go there there very often these days. I used to ride my bike around Boston too, scary sometimes. Nothing like a deer running in front of your motorcycle to get your attention.:eek:

read that in the Washington post this year.....we even beat NYC...

but thats not really something you want bragging rights to.

Hard to believe....worse than NYC.

I knew it was bad but man.

Now....do you believe everything you read in the paper? After a couple stories about me in the Baltimore Sun I never believe anything I read in that paper! Facts all twisted around and things in quotes that I never said.

Craig...we all have a 6th sense for deer. In western Md. I had a bear run out in front of me while on my m/c.

Cheers,

Bill

Hard to believe....worse than NYC.

I knew it was bad but man.

Now....do you believe everything you read in the paper? After a couple stories about me in the Baltimore Sun I never believe anything I read in that paper! Facts all twisted around and things in quotes that I never said.

Cheers,

BillTry riding the beltway during rush hour...or rout 95 during rush hour...you won't doubt it at all.

in the evening the inner loop backed up from the Potomac river all the way to 95 and north is an every day thing.....thats over 30 miles stop and go...same with Route 66 west outside the beltway....over 25 miles stop and go every day, and 95 south for about 20+ miles stop and go....

All bumper to bumper, moving 5 feet at a time.

See it all the time with my own eyes......

Try riding the beltway during rush hour...or rout 95 during rush hour...you won't doubt it at all.

in the evening the inner loop backed up from the Potomac river all the way to 95 and north is an every day thing.....thats over 30 miles stop and go...same with Route 66 west outside the beltway....over 25 miles stop and go every day, and 95 south for about 20+ miles stop and go....

All bumper to bumper, moving 5 feet at a time.

See it all the time with my own eyes......

I've seen the backups with my own eyes too....on I95. 66 used to be a nice drive but I guess not anymore.

I bet that road to Fredrick [270??] gets just as bad.

Wait 5 years...complete gridlock if they don't do something.

Cheers,

Bill

I've seen the backups with my own eyes too....on I95. 66 used to be a nice drive but I guess not anymore.

I bet that road to Fredrick [270??] gets just as bad.

Wait 5 years...complete gridlock if they don't do something.

Cheers,

Bill 270 was a mess 20 years ago.....they widened it 15 years ago and its still a mess.....I rarely end up there during rush hour however....I shift any customer visits to avoid the worst times.

270 was a mess 20 years ago.....they widened it 15 years ago and its still a mess.....I rarely end up there during rush hour however....I shift any customer visits to avoid the worst times.

Am glad I can avoid that whole area. Would rather put up with deer in the road.


Too bad you can't switch jobs. Those traffic jams would drive me to drink. Hey wait....I drink anyway. Well, it would make me pull my hair out. Hmmm...I'm already bald. Well, it would drive me to do something.:D

Cheers,

Bill

I think helmets should be mandatory for anyone under 18 and with less than 3 years on a motorcycle endorsement. And voluntary for the rest of us.
I think we ALL need to wear helmets (Motocycles, Cars, RV's, Boats. etc...):bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

Axm

I think we ALL need to wear helmets (Motocycles, Cars, RV's, Boats. etc...):bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

Axm

The way most people drive it might not be a bad idea.

Cheers,

Bill

To hear some of our fine legislators and (let's not forget our fine insurance companies who DO IT AL FOR US).

One would think that if: Use helmets (alway's), Wear seat belts (especially while sinking in water), have front/side/rear air bags, have all wheel drive, do not have coffee between legs (contents may be hot). We all should be safe from death forever ;-)

Axm

To hear some of our fine legislators and (let's not forget our fine insurance companies who DO IT AL FOR US).

One would think that if: Use helmets (alway's), Wear seat belts (especially while sinking in water), have front/side/rear air bags, have all wheel drive, do not have coffee between legs (contents may be hot). We all should be safe from death forever ;-)

Axm


Most helmet supporters have never tried riding in traffic with earmuffs on..You can hear more in a car with the windows up than you will hear wearing a hemet on a motorcycle..it blocks sound from every direction but down which is the engine and the noisiest thing around.

Not factoring in heat stroke on hot and humid days.

What about helmet paint? Is that going to be restricted as well? What if you're in a state with no helmet law, would hair coloring be restricted then? :confused:

Most helmet supporters have never tried riding in traffic with earmuffs on..You can hear more in a car with the windows up than you will hear wearing a hemet on a motorcycle..it blocks sound from every direction but down which is the engine and the noisiest thing around.

Not factoring in heat stroke on hot and humid days.
I agree, but I doubt you can explain this to people who haven't done it. It's like riding in a bubble. If I ever get old and/or scared enough that I'm not comfortable riding without a helmet I'll probably just quit riding.

How about helmets for pedestrians and people in homes with stairs? There oughta be a law....

Happy Motoring, Mark

How about helmets for pedestrians and people in homes with stairs? There oughta be a law....

Happy Motoring, Mark
Air bags too.:D

Air bags too.:Dwe are talking DC....plenty of airbags walking the streets around here.....more the closer to the capitol you get too.

Probably going to get in trouble for this, but here goes.

What about helmets to protect my ever growing bald spot? I must call my congress man/woman and start an ill bill for that too. BTW "I never had anything to do with that WOMAN" ;-):bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:
I still crack-up when I hear that line of bull and all the weak minded folks that think he was honest.

Just heard about this in a trade paper. If adopted, will go into effect in 2011. Lots of time to stock up on paint and supplies. I know I'll be too damn old to care. :D

Just heard about this in a trade paper. If adopted, will go into effect in 2011. Lots of time to stock up on paint and supplies. I know I'll be too damn old to care. :D

I'll be 25 or so when that goes into effect...

Damn...

Course by then, they will probably have some new fangled paints, ways to paint cars, and all that good stuff.

My goal is move out of the states in my 20's...if I end up getting my dream career :)

Next thing they are going to make it illegal to wash out own cars....


And people wonder why I reffer to them as the Environazis allong with certain "green" groups...

These are not "environazis" (at least not anymore). The EPA, like many federal agencies, has been completely bought and paid for, most often by interests that are opposite the organization's original intent.

You could argue about green groups, etc., five years ago, but it's a new arena now where corparate demands dictate policy for pee-ons like you and me. Green groups and environazis should now be the least of your worries.

Be thankful that at least now there's no more of that green stuff like worrying about mecury contamination, run-off from coal mines, etc. All that is now passe as the EPA has become an enemic yes-man for industry. The battle over the future of the environment has been won, and it isn't Greenpeace that's dancing...nor even "middle-of-the-road" people like myself (or I at least like to consider myself).

Pete.