I am angry as H___ after I sat at a repair Shop waiting for a $30 weld on my exhaust pipe. I watched the manager outright lie to a Lady about his ability to diagnose her car's not passing emissions. He didn't even ask if it was CO or NOX, and I knew he was bluffing about his ability to solve the problem since he has no emissions equipment. I've seen this guy in action before. He's not as bad as others, but he can be very naughty.

Anyway I paid for my Weld and when I left I was PO'd at myself about having to do business with such a jerk. I always put off buying a welder because I figured the welder and all the associated grinding, cutting and prep equipment would run $2000 at least.

Next spring I am going to weld the floor in my 300D myself. I am also going to cut the wheel arch and rear rocker panel ( under the trunk) off of a car and weld it on myself. I am told Mercedes 300D metal has high lead content and is hard to weld. Please tell me what kind of welder I need and i will buy it next month....

I've never heard about any lead content in any kind of steel. Maybe you are thinking about the carbon content? Anyway I've done minor welding with a small Lincoln arc welder that I found new at a garage sale for $30. It basically looks like an oversized battery charger. I've done wonders with it but I've never tried anything on a big scale like a floor in a car. It's paid for itself many times over since I've had it.

for garage bodywork a cheap mig welder would work great. You don't need much power since the heaviest body work would be would be MAYBE 16 gauge probably more like 18. I'm doing up an old 68 250S (check the website in my signature). I used a mig welder and after: grinding with a DA sander, sanding with a scotch brite, then hammer and dolly work only a SMALL amount of filler would be necessary. By small I mean about 1/16 inch deep. This is the best bet if your a DIYer. I have used TIG quite a bit for work but it's a LOT harder to learn and you have to have perfect fit pieces and weld on a regular basis.

Hey Carrameow
Stop over...I have a mig welder....you can practice...I just finished my coupe.
I have right and left floor panels and frame rail sections . I also fabricated the curved frame rail over the wheel well all Made of 18 AWG steel.

I agree a mig welder for the floors...a stick welder is too hard to control at the low amps needed....(for someone new at welding)


but first.....practice..practice....practice...before attempting on your car.

I've had a MIG welder since 1985 and will testify that this is probably the most important tool in my shop next to the air compressor. It will open up a whole new world for you. Get the 110volt model and that way you are mobile.
The thinner the metal the more difficult it is to weld without burning through.
Start on something like 1/8 inch steel and just get the hang of it. Before you know it you will be welding like a champ. Oh, and clean the heck out of the metal that you are going to weld.

Good luck,
Tom

I agree a mig welder for the floors...a stick welder is too hard to control at the low amps needed....(for someone new at welding)


but first.....practice..practice....practice...before attempting on your car.

I have to chime in and agree. A basic MIG is easy to use. I bought a Hobart handler about 14 years ago. They were bought out by Miller (I think). I'd look for a unit that's 220V and one that can do some aluminum - not that you should expect miracles, but for in a pinch. A MIG is good for autobody work while on your back under the car where it's hard enough to get ONE hand near the work. Also, get a basic, autodarkening helmet with a few shade settings.

Poor Rich. I see Tom advised you to go 110V and I said 220V. Both have pros and cons. I bought a 110V and it works fine. I didn't used to feel the portability aspect meant anything, but now I realize that since I moved and my lousy little garage has 1 110V circuit, it probably is worth more than I think. Sometimes I wish it had a little more power though, that's why I said 220V. More important than the voltage is quality and features. You should take Anthony up on his kind offer and try one.

Have you heard of a magazine from the UK called "Practical Classics"? It's available at both Borders and Barnes and Noble booksellers, and probably many more. It is focused on the Do-it-Yourselfer and has great write ups about selecting tools, equipment, etc... The latest issue had an article on MIG welders that was very informative for someone looking at trying welding for the first time, myself included.

Hmmm, wonder why the U.S. can't put out magazines like this.

Have you heard of a magazine from the UK called "Practical Classics"? It's available at both Borders and Barnes and Noble booksellers, and probably many more. It is focused on the Do-it-Yourselfer and has great write ups about selecting tools, equipment, etc... The latest issue had an article on MIG welders that was very informative for someone looking at trying welding for the first time, myself included.

Hmmm, wonder why the U.S. can't put out magazines like this.I guess the Brits have fewer people with the cash to pay dealers to do the work.......

or we just have too many people here that grew up not knowing how to do anything becasue their parents couldn't either....or were too lazy.

Mig/Fluxcore 130EN Turbo Welder is one of three welders I own and use. :)
Item: 4097-0035
Ship Weight: 55.00 lbs.
http://www.wttool.com/p/4097-0035

http://www.wttool.com/search.php?Search_Type=AND&q=mig+welder&x=9&y=8

Here is a thread you need to read.

Keep that diesel on the road, Welding rust holes
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1019930#post1019930

I would consider getting a dual purpose mig. One that could run flux core and switch over for gas. Not all are dual purpose by a long shot. Think you are better off around rust with the flux core but if you have basically clean metal the gas enclosure of the weld is superior in my opinion for strength and appearance. You cannot weld even in a light breeze with gas though. It blows the protective gas bubble away. Good place to buy sometimes is a bankrupcy sale of a garage business as you do not need a lot of power or a big unit. Also like far too many claims these days some brands put out what they advertise or more while others seem weak. Try to get a unit with at least 100 amp output available. The majority have thermal protection of the transformer so you do not have to worry about burning them out like you do with a stick welder. I personally found the italian built units pretty good for the money all around. At one time think 90% of the small to medium size mig welders in the world were italian built. Anyways they are quite versitile and the learning curve is a lot flatter than learning stick welding. Just my opinion.

My first welding experience was welding patch panels in a rusted out floor of a VW bug...(going into a baja).

I picked it up pretty fast and now anything that isn't as thin as a fingermail and rusted/covered with gooey crap is a breeze.

We have a mig welder as well...older snap-on upright model...220V 100% duty cycle (important for some jobs). Its for autobody work but has no problem doing up some pretty think stuff.

Obviously I am pretty green still but deinfely don't get something that you are always underpowered cursing at it. Being able to select exactly what you want (heat and wirespeed) has been the biggest help for me.

Go autotinting hoods!!!

If you want the mercedes of welders get a Miller. I would also recommend a MIG for light welding, however a high end stick welder with fine controls and the right welding rods can do fabulus work as well. There are actually rods with ratings down to 20 amps that can weld down to 24gauge steel. One feature I would look for is the ability to alter polarity this makes all the diffrence in the world when performing out of position welding.

I've never understood why you would switch polarity. can someone explain?

I've never understood why you would switch polarity. can someone explain?in a nutshell certain things work better welded DC vs AC and in a certain polarity while other are better in the other.....

Alluminum is better welded by DC for example...however I am sure you will get a far better explaination than that

Another important thing is to get a Self Darkening Mask it will make welding alot easier specially for a novice

I 2nd that

Try a Lincoln SP135. 110volt, flux core or gas, it comes setup for gas. Infinite control of feed speed and arc which is really nice if you plan on doing thin sheet metal. You can dial it in really well. My whole rig with a cart was under $600. A grinder will set you back $100, a cheap metal cutting chop saw about $150 and a decent vice, you are good to go. Oh yeah, decent welding helmet. Spend the $$ and get an auto diming model. For right about a $1000 you will have all you need to do most anything. RT

Pretty good recomendations so far, I found my welder on Craigslist, it's an older Miller Bluestar... nothing like the newer ones, weighs in at around 550lbs and cost me $1,000. Not what you're looking for but that's a good place to look, I've seen plenty of MIG welders on there too. Pawn shops are a good place for grinders, saws, drills, etc. I would look for a good name brand like Milwakee or DeWalt for that stuff, you don't want used cheap tools!

Lincoln Weldpak, Miller 135, Hobart, Esab...any of those are good

Definately get one that uses shielding gas, I personally don't like welding with flux-cored welding wire, it's quite messy, and you will get a nicer weld with less porosity with 75/25 or AB Trimix.

Alluminum is better welded by DC for example...however I am sure you will get a far better explaination than that

Actually, when you are TIG welding aluminum you use AC current

Actually, when you are TIG welding aluminum you use AC currentnever did TIG before...but I want to learn how...Stick welding aluminum you use DC...

In my shop I have two hoists but two wire feeds also. The 220 is located in the back by the welding bench,the 110 is up front by the other hoist. Lets put it this way the 220 gets turned on maybe ten times a year and when it does it is moving some serious wire and pump,in some heat. The rest of the year the miller 180 is always turned on. One thing to remember when your buying a wire feed!!!It,s called duty cycle!!!100% is the best the other thing that you need to have is a nice big breaker or a dedicated breaker for just the welder nothing like getting into a nice comfortable postion and start welding away and the breaker pops!! because you welder wants 20 amps and you have some lights and a small heater on the same cercit. Miller is the way to go on a wire feed!!!!

I actually prefer Lincolns, I have found that Millers tend to have a bit of a harsher arc to them, I have been able to produce nicer welds with Lincoln Welders...but both are still great

in a nutshell certain things work better welded DC vs AC and in a certain polarity while other are better in the other.....

Alluminum is better welded by DC for example...however I am sure you will get a far better explaination than that

I know that you use AC when TIGing aluminum. I do it in a production setting quite often. This is not switching polarity. Switching polarity would be using DC- vs. DC+. An AC current is constantly switching direction of flow (Polarity). Thus the name Alternating Current.

I never understood why there was a DC+ setting on the TIG welder. I'm sure it's useful sometimes but I have never needed it.

I love being able to come in after this many posts and suggest something completely different.

I suggest you get an oxy-acet outfit... buy the tanks and get a medium range cutting and welding outfit in a kit form.. much cheaper when just starting out.. or when replacing tanks and welding outfit which someone stole from you.. don't ask...
Anyway, it took me about $650 to replace everything... tanks, guages, welding tips and cutting torch.

No one that I know would try using any of the above mentioned welders on an exhaust pipe in a car.. but with just a little practice one could expect to get a good weld all the way around it even in tight spaces... which exhaust welding often is since at least one joint is usually welded or at least tacked in place. I love cars where the entire exhaust is hung from rubber hangers... get it in place, tack the joints, take it out and put it on a bench and stand up and weld it all around ....

Also , butt welding sheet metal.. either for the floor pan replacement or the cosmetic work at the rear quarterpanels... not really the best way to accomplish those tasks..

It is very easy to start a fire when working inside a car.. with any type welder... if you have the new floor panels... it is much better to use standard sheet metal working tools and techniques for everything possible... and most of those jobs would allow that...

When welding from one side...and new to welding it is hard to know if the weld is really good...penetrating correctly Without burning...

What should be done if one is conservative.. and yall know I have to be since I am a one man operation.... is to cut the bad metal out with shears, nibbler,cuttoff saw or something which does not introduce heat to the sheet metal... you can warp large panels of sheetmetal very fast using either torch or mig or whatever... then you have more problems than you started out with concerning the rust...

When putting two pieces of sheet metal together which need to be strong for a long time and are not accessible for inspection in the normal sense.. like a floor pan... you cut out the rusted metal and flange the edge with a flange tool... air operated.. either the kind which has a hole punch on one end and the flange maker on the other.. or the kind which fits into a standard .401 air hammer. The latter is faster but it is nice to have the hole puncher available.
You flange the stationary metal... and put holes into the new pan at its top edge.... this is assuming you will be welding or accessing it from the inside of the car.
Then you place the new pan into position.. and carefully drill a few 1/8th inch holes and install Clecos to hold the pan in place.... then you measure measure measure... making sure it is exactly where you want it.
Then you can drill and install old fashioned solid rivets where you have access to ' bucking ' them from the other side... or use some of the newer CherryMax or the like which can be installed from one side... these are typically used by people trying to kill themselves making their own experimental aircraft... and they are often successful.... not that the rivets don't hold.. they do.. but the people still manage to get out of the flight envelope... things like not having enough fuel... like John Denver... anyway, I digress..
Then you can use your new welder to carefully and Quickly ( to avoid heating as much as possible ) to PLUG WELD in those holes you made with the other side of the flanger in the new pan. So you have kept everything lined up and solid with rivets, you have left the metal you are attaching to in place and you have the closest thing to a resistance weld ( like you see in the advertizements of cars being made by robots.. that pow and sparks is a resistance weld being executed ).... the other name used for that type weld is " spot " ....
Anyway, using filler rod with your left hand is good practice.. whether the rod is brass or steel... and will be good practice in case you get an actual TIG machine which requires the feeding of filler material ( typically aluminum ) also...
What is this deal with automatic feeding of wire...what are you guys doing with your LEFT hands during this time ? WAIT !!! Don't tell me I DON'T WANT TO KNOW !!! LOLOL
And anyway, a torch is the only way to go when needing to cut big steel..and the more tools you get the more you will want to cut and weld up stee.... Do you have an engine stand ? How about a cherry picker ? the list just goes on and on.
I suggest anyone who wants to do rust repair get a copy of a Petersen Publishing company book on autorestoration or painting.... or better yet... some of the old Hot Rod books which showed how guys like George Barris and Ed Roth made up customs... they usually tacked what they needed by brazing... a major problem with butt welding outside body sheet metal is that once you have ground it off smooth you have little weld left... that is why flanging is so handy... and strong.

No one that I know would try using any of the above mentioned welders on an exhaust pipe in a car...

I would.:smhair2: Often I reach under to do a repair and my choice is either a) fix a bad spot so I can get more life out of the existing exhaust sytem or b)get a new one.

Last spring I dropped the back of my exhaust on my street. It broke right behind the resonators. A $2 exhaust adapter and 1/2 hour of MIG and it was better than ever. Still there.

What I meant was while the exhaust was up in the car still attached... with a big helmet and a tight space above the pipe it would be hard to use most mig units.. I can bend the filler rod and get up on top even if I have to come at it from each side coming down...and wearing elastic held goggles is much easier when climbing under a car and then working above you...

What I meant was while the exhaust was up in the car still attached... with a big helmet and a tight space above the pipe it would be hard to use most mig units.. I can bend the filler rod and get up on top even if I have to come at it from each side coming down...and wearing elastic held goggles is much easier when climbing under a car and then working above you...

yes, it was hard to do like that and the weld I got on the upper 1/2 of the pipe wasn't pretty but I got enough penetration. I'd have to agree that a torch would have been easier in that particular circumstance.

Someday I'd like to make a "slimline" helmet out of a cheap autodarkening shade and a leather ski mask. Actually, I've been looking for an old leather ski mask for many years, but it seems they are all made out of Lycra now.:mad:

What is this deal with automatic feeding of wire...what are you guys doing with your LEFT hands during this time ? WAIT !!! Don't tell me I DON'T WANT TO KNOW !!! LOLOL
A welding hammer, body hammer and/or dolly are in the left hand most times.:)
There are times when the left hand works the water between spot welds.:)
I prefer a plasma cutter for heavy metal slicing.:)

All good points, WHunter, but Richard was talking about just getting into welding.. so I would suggest a torch first, mig or stick second... and plasma when he has some big extra cash and his wife is not looking....... LOL

All good points, WHunter, but Richard was talking about just getting into welding.. so I would suggest a torch first, mig or stick second... and plasma when he has some big extra cash and his wife is not looking....... LOL

I will agree with you regarding the use of OA welding to start out, as it is a fine way to learn the properties of metal...however...it isn't really feasable to torch weld most things, as it is like TIG welding, takes forever and looks really nice...so for someone on a budget, as most of us are, I would recommend a MIG...just like everyone else has said...

in a nutshell certain things work better welded DC vs AC and in a certain polarity while other are better in the other.....

Alluminum is better welded by DC for example...however I am sure you will get a far better explaination than that

first off: bump

You (usually) get 3 settings with a stick welder. DC+, DC-, and AC High Frequency. My shop instructor always said ACHF was the proper setting for alumn, although I've never welded alumn.

-------------------------
Gas welding takes a bit of practice to get a good bead, Mig took me an entire day to learn - its far easier. We got a nice used (bought at an auction) Millermatic MIG, for around $500 (hell, it even came with a 25lb. spool of wire)

whats a good 220 welder for around 400?

Weldings awesome
~Nate

whats a good 220 welder for around 400?

Weldings awesome
~Nate


mig or stick?

Practical Classics is a fantastic magazine. I grew up reading articles from that all the way in 1989 and still subscribe to it even though it's pretty expensive in the US.

I think reading that Mag was one of the reasons why I wasn't put off with all the rust in my 6.9. I figured if someone could spend thousands of dollars resurrecting an Austin Allegro from a pile of rust and turn it into a gleaming $500 dollar car. I could bring back the 6.9.

Body guys are actually pretty cheap in the UK, we just have a lot more rust there too so the work becomes more challanging.


Have you heard of a magazine from the UK called "Practical Classics"? It's available at both Borders and Barnes and Noble booksellers, and probably many more. It is focused on the Do-it-Yourselfer and has great write ups about selecting tools, equipment, etc... The latest issue had an article on MIG welders that was very informative for someone looking at trying welding for the first time, myself included.

Hmmm, wonder why the U.S. can't put out magazines like this.

Actually I had a Muffler guy in Dallas (MAKS MUFFLER on Harry Hines BLVD) who used gas for his muffler work. He's an old boy who had the cleanest shop that I have ever seen.

I could watch him weld all day. Really impressive work and great value if anyone needs exhaust work in the area.


I love being able to come in after this many posts and suggest something completely different.

I suggest you get an oxy-acet outfit... buy the tanks and get a medium range cutting and welding outfit in a kit form.. much cheaper when just starting out.. or when replacing tanks and welding outfit which someone stole from you.. don't ask...
Anyway, it took me about $650 to replace everything... tanks, guages, welding tips and cutting torch.

No one that I know would try using any of the above mentioned welders on an exhaust pipe in a car.

I was looking at a Hobart Handler 140 MIG on Northern Tool & Equipment. My dad thought that it'd do a nicer job for body repairs than a torch. We have an (acient!) marquette AC arc welder as well as a nice craftsman torch (tanks need filling!) already.

You think I ought to try doing body work with the torch for now? I'd love to get right to work on my car, but I don't have the money for a MIG right now, won't for months......... :(

How does the quality of torch welds turn out? My dad's a really good stick welder, but isn't used to torch welding, just cutting....I on the other hand, have no welding skills. Plus, I might add, my dad is also no good a thin metal welding, heavy stuff is his thing....(He's a farmer. :D Nuff said! :D )

What think?

I waited until i was 46 to get my welder...but I'm glad I have it because now i dont have to pay others to do it. I dont know much about stick or torch welding, but its great your Dad knows and he can help you out, and welding is welding in any shape or form, as long as the meatl sticks together. after stick welding, arc welding should be a breeze for you........as long as you know stick and arc, it would only benefit you. I have a Mig now, but i wish i could learn stick and torch....

I did torch welding when I was a kid at school. It needs serious skills (that I never had). I am going to limit all my welding to areas that are not visible (like panel work).

With all welding, when your welding panels you need to be super careful so as not to warp the panels. I have seen experienced body guys warp a wheel arch repair. I am thinking of using glue to repair my panel work so that I can avoid this.

I waited until i was 46 to get my welder...but I'm glad I have it because now i dont have to pay others to do it. I dont know much about stick or torch welding, but its great your Dad knows and he can help you out, and welding is welding in any shape or form, as long as the meatl sticks together. after stick welding, arc welding should be a breeze for you........as long as you know stick and arc, it would only benefit you. I have a Mig now, but i wish i could learn stick and torch....


I have NO welding experience. My dad is the stick welder.........

:(

MIG is the way to fly for a first welder. Its a bit more expensive, but man, its easy, and predictable. Plus, it doesn't heat the metal up as much so its good for thin stuff. You just set the feed rate and current up according to the suggested settings for your material, then point, and shoot.

On my first day learning to MIG weld, I made this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Tallbike.jpg/300px-Tallbike.jpg

I haven't yet taken the MIG to my dear 300TD, but I'm going to have to, pretty soon... :(

peace,
sam

I see your point. I have an OLLLLDDDD book by the Linde Oxygen Company all about Oxy-Acet welding. Their first exercise is moving a weld puddle around on a piece of sheet metal WITH NO WELDING ROD!

Then, they show you how to join two sheets using very little rod at all! Amazing! BUT, it does heat up the area pretty bad.........

Saving pennys....BUT.... My business needs faster internet (Sat Dish) and the pro-level set-up will run me about $1800 with me installing it! (I'm a trained Satellite internet installer) so I'm going to be short of cash for a welder for a while! :(

But, thankfully my business is at my home, so I get to enjoy that Sat internet personally too! :P

Thanks!!

...........On my first day learning to MIG weld, I made this:
sam

Is that what you would call a "unisex" bike? :D

I bet you would become one if your foot ever slipped off the pedal.:eek: :o

Is that what you would call a "unisex" bike?

I bet you would become one if your foot ever slipped off the pedal.

With a bike that tall, I'm not ashamed about the girls frame on top. ;)

I ride it around all the time, rode to work on it yesterday, actually. I've fallen a few times, but not as much as you'd think, and so far, the boys haven't taken a hit. ;) I suppose the day may come, however...

peace,
sam

I finally broke down and got a MIG (wire welder actually, no MIG kit on, but can be upgraded later.)

It's a Hobart Handler 125. Also got an Auto - Darkening helmet too. I did some practice welds tonight on some scrap, it's soooo easy!

P.S. the Welder was only $360 & the Auto-Dark Helmet (solar powered!) was $53!!

My dad tried it out too, said it totally beats the pant of his now-deceased Century. Said he could never get a good weld out of it (the Century) because the wire speed was almost impossible to get set right. I just followed the general guesses on the inside of the access panel for heat/speed and layed out a nice bead right off the bat with my Hobart. Good tools can make a difference I guess.......... :D

Hopefully tomorrow I can get the SD welded up and back on the road. It's been nearly a week without her now. I'm going through withdrawal!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek:

:D

i just bought my stick welder last weekend. im starting to wonder if i like it more than my mig setup. sad thing is i can write my name better with a stick welder than with a pencil