Does any one know how to get a motor from valtonen motorsports in Finland. I have the undersatnding that myna diesel in finland makes the fuel pumps for them. I am also have the understanding that they have figured out how to do the mods without doing engine damage.http://www.kolumbus.fi/valtonen.motorsport/ (http://www.balticnordic.com/redirect.html?action=url&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kolumbus.fi%2Fvaltonen.motorsport%2F) That link is the website for valtonen ms. they have a i5 diesel putting out 446hp!!!! could i get a fuel pump from them and get my mechanic to add intercooler and modify my exhaust and and change the turbo? What size turbo and injectors should i get? check this site out and also go to this site so you can see why i have to this setup. YouTube - world's fastest diesel mercedes w123 300d

they use a supercharger and a monster turbo

the video was the first and last time the car was running i think.....
unless you only want a 60 second ride......i wouldnt go that crazy


with a pump upgrade....you will need a fairly larger turbo to use all the diesel its pumping out
then your tranny will take a dump, fix it, then your blaa will break and so on till you decide its not worth it anymore


these engines are so strong because they dont put out any power worth talking about

do a compression test, if all is well make sure EVERYTHING else is working properly...then

IC, exhaust, pump timing, ALDA removed, pump limiter removed, 14 psi should be enough, all that should give you 100hp+, 200tq+ i think, no dyno yet

then get a myna pump and you will have 150hp, lots of black smoke

THEN get a bigger turbo, VNT from a powerstroke , or holset lag monster

the more power you push out , the faster it will wear out and die

:dancefool

NFW will the stock injection pump with tweaks give +100 HP and +200 ft*lb torque. Nobody has figured out a good way to get much more power from the stock MW pump. For anything over 25 more HP or so you will need to talk to MYNA, but be prepared to spend big $$. I would recommend a holset VGT and a MYNA pump for serious power. AFAIK the Finns are running a fairly stock transmission and drive train.

Forced has 107 hp and 194.8tq, without the limiter removed!!

only difference is he has 2 stage injectors , VNT , and the w115 intake, plus everything else i listed

they use a supercharger and a monster turbo . . . :dancefool

Both on the same engine? I didn't know that was possible.

Forced has 107 hp and 194.8tq, without the limiter removed!!

only difference is he has 2 stage injectors , VNT , and the w115 intake, plus everything else i listed

Stock is 125, or about 107 at the wheels. no way could you get to 225 with IC, exhaust, pump timing, ALDA removed, and a full load adjustment

anything is possible if you have money
as a result the engine didnt last

http://www.kolumbus.fi/valtonen.motorsport/images/mb%20031.jpg

Stock is 125, or about 107 at the wheels. no way could you get to 225 with IC, exhaust, pump timing, ALDA removed, and a full load adjustment


i dont know where you get 225 from....

if FI has 107\195 , im sure with the limiter removed he will have OVER 110hp 225tq

Wow, Live and learn! That is amazing.

propane? ;)

Propane is to a diesel much like nitrous is to a gasser? Is that correct?

Propane is to a diesel much like nitrous is to a gasser? Is that correct?

Not really, propane is an additional source of fuel, while nitrous is an additional source of oxygen. Some performance diesels use nitrous too.

i would think so, it helps burn the diesel

anything over a sniff of propane and the engine may blow

the propane will ignite alot sooner then the diesel and mess everything up

propane and water\meth injection might work well together,

there are no second chances tho, blow it up and its holidays :rolleyes:

I don't think they mess with 617's much. Most of the cars I have seen have been 603/6's with a 602 thrown in.

With stock IP a 603 is good for about 180hp before maxing out. With larger Myna elements you an crank the power up a lot more.

But this all costs a lot of money and you have to really know what your doing to get it to all work.

the engine was designed in europe, and its a benz, so its complex,

all we can do is baby steps,

or search for a old german mechanic somewhere that knows something lol

info on this site for the power hungry people

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/

Complecated compared to what a garden tractor?:confused:

Tunning diesels is slightly different than tuning gas engines, and these are different than say a Cummins because they are IDI engines.

But you need to give them lots of cool air and lots of fuel. The stock IP's can only deliver so much fuel, thats the first limit. So you spend $3k and bolt on a Myna IP, now you can deliver more fuel than air, so you need a big Holset turbo and intercooler to keep the EGT's down, of course bolting on a better exhuast in the process.

Than you run into design limitations. Thats why if I was going to go nuts and build one of these I would start with a 606. The 606 has a 4 valve per cylinder head so its going to produce more power.

Last I heard they never really did anything besides that burnout video and then disassembled it.

Yes but the new engine is tits. I love the AWIC built into the manifold... THAT IS HOT.

I thought the diesel stock produces 134 hp. Would i get 100 more hp and 200 more torque with the ic newer better exhaust and alda and pump limiter removed with a 14 psi?
What type of injectors should i use with the myna pump? How fast is fast. These engines are good for more than 500,000 miles without major service. I also thought if you use really big intercooler you wont have to worry about the engine breaking down as fast? How would i beef up my tranny so it could take the extra power? I really only want 275-280 hp is that possible? if not what older engine would be able to handle more than 275 hp.
i haven't ruled out buying another 85 diesel and building a different mb diesel motor with gobbs of power to run in the car. How much are holset turbos?

Would i get 100 more hp and 200 more torque with the ic newer better exhaust and alda and pump limiter removed with a 14 psi?

No. The most you'll get out of the stock injection pump is 50hp.

I thought the diesel stock produces 134 hp. Would i get 100 more hp and 200 more torque with the ic newer better exhaust and alda and pump limiter removed with a 14 psi?


Depends what diesel engine. Generally it's about 25% more with the stock pump.

You might reach higher with water alcohol injection and or propane injection.

Depends what diesel engine. Generally it's about 25% more with the stock pump.

You might reach higher with water alcohol injection and or propane injection.

US spec 603 is good for about 180hp without doing major (read expensive) work to the IP. Thats with an intercooler and more boost, the stock turbo is fine if you are not messing with the IP.

Anyone know what the 617 max's at? Probably around 150 I'd guess.

US spec 603 is good for about 180hp without doing major (read expensive) work to the IP. Thats with an intercooler and more boost, the stock turbo is fine if you are not messing with the IP.




You can't get more power without more fuel. More boost and a IC alone won't do anything but lower EGTs.

Correct, but you can get 30hp more than stock by adding and intercooler, cranking up the boost a bit, and probably removing the ALDA so you get fuel sooner.

Talk to Dave (GSXR) he is the 603 expert.

Anything more requires you to bore out the plungers in the IP.

Correct, but you can get 30hp more than stock by adding and intercooler, cranking up the boost a bit, and probably removing the ALDA so you get fuel sooner.

Talk to Dave (GSXR) he is the 603 expert.

Anything more requires you to bore out the plungers in the IP.

As said before, not only that. You need to play with the full load screw as well. Intercooler and higher boost won't gain you anything, at least not 30hp. You need to get to the full load screw. Also alda won't increase peak hp but it'll help in off boost performance and smoke screen :D.

You are correct Deni. I'm thinking I will remove my ALDA soon. No need to limit fuel when I have instant boost from my VNT. :D

Correct, but you can get 30hp more than stock by adding and intercooler, cranking up the boost a bit, and probably removing the ALDA so you get fuel sooner.

The ALDA only restricts fuel until boost comes up. An intercooler and more boost without more fuel will actually slightly reduce power because of the higher pumping losses in the intercooler and exhaust pressure to drive the turbo faster.

The only way to increase power in a non-computer diesel is to turn up the injection pump.

No need to limit fuel when I have instant boost from my VNT. :D
That works great for me. :D

The only way to increase power in a non-computer diesel is to turn up the injection pump.


Come on you know thats not true. The only way to increase power is to add more fuel, and more air. That does not correlate directly with just "turning up the injection pump", it has a lot to do with the dynamics of how the fuel gets to the injectors, how it gets through the injectors, how it gets by the delivery valves, etc. Turning up the pump is but a part of the whole picture.

"Increasing fuel flow" is a better way to describe it? ;)

"Increasing fuel flow" is a better way to describe it? ;)

Much better!:D Sorry that last post made me sound like a dick, I don't mean to be that way, i just get really focused on the problem sometimes.

Last I heard they never really did anything besides that burnout video and then disassembled it.

that is the most unreal "new" info in this whole thread.:D

And some of those guys swear by having the stock injectors Extrude Hone modified. Seems to aid the diesel flow thru the injector without going to another pump (stops some of the injector overflow thru the rubber return lines). Anybody tried this on the Benz injectors?

Regards

Run-Em

No, but I am in contact with the company and will be having a set done if I can sell my laptop to get some funds. They said that most of the injectors they do are from DI engines, but they have had some success with IDI engine injectors.

Hmmm.. i have a spare injection pump laying around here... maybie i should play around with the torque plate abit.. and get metal added to the cam so it injects more fuel (meaning ill have to shorten the elements but its all possible)

You should cut your delivery valves: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=86

A metal turning lathe would be best for that.. wouldnt have to worry about knicking it up and you will have a smooth finish afterwards. Oh and BTW, i would KILL for that idle :D :D What im thinking now is why not cut some slits in the collars? that way more fuel can get past, but you still have some collar left.

A metal turning lathe would be best for that.. wouldnt have to worry about knicking it up and you will have a smooth finish afterwards. Oh and BTW, i would KILL for that idle :D :D What im thinking now is why not cut some slits in the collars? that way more fuel can get past, but you still have some collar left.

depends on the hardness of the metal.

depends on the hardness of the metal. Carbide is pretty strong... you can buy a carbide cutter for six bucks.

Carbide is pretty strong... you can buy a carbide cutter for six bucks.

surface finish wont be as good as grinding. Cermet would be a better material for this situation - better surface finish. They dont require the tooling pressure that carbide does to get a good finish, a light pass with real slow SFM and high rpm will work nicely.

Indexable cutters are perfered, but look into spending more.


Now, if you were to mount your grinder (dremal, whatever) stationary on the lathe's apron, set it for center.....

Now, if you were to mount your grinder (dremal, whatever) stationary on the lathe's apron, set it for center.....

Thats what I did. Zip-tied it, no less. Got all 5 DVs to within 0.003" of eachother... not very good if you ask me, I would look for 0.0005 with something like this.. but better than I could have done by hand. I think if I secured the dremel better (with a method slightly more stable than zipties) it would have yielded better results. These little buggers are quite hard, I have very little experience with carbide so I just don't know how well they would cut, but from what I do know of carbide is that the cutter needs to be fairly big and have a fairly large amount of material near a tip of fairly large radius, and that the cutter needs a steel backing, because the material is quite brittle. That would eliminate it from this application due to the lack of available space to work with. I could be totally wrong.

EDIT: I have read/heard references to "laser cut" delivery valves.. do they actually mean laser or EDM? why would someone use a laser to cut a delivery valve?

EDIT: I have read/heard references to "laser cut" delivery valves.. do they actually mean laser or EDM? why would someone use a laser to cut a delivery valve?

I've never dealt with laser.



EDM would be an option - insanely expensive one at that. Someone with a good Surface grinder and an indexing head would be your best bet.

Is this the same for 60x delivery valves? I only see 61x discussed.

You should cut your delivery valves: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=86

I wouldn't touch the DVs until you have an intercooler, a pre-turbo pyrometer, and a method of delivering more airflow to the engine than the stock setup provides, regardless of the engine type. And yes, I think messing with the DVs would yield results in a 60x engine... I don't know whether its been tried.