The wife was driving home and some young girl said she stepped on the gas instead of the brake...or something like that...at a stop light and hit 'Grace'.

Wife said the girl was crying her eyes out about her newely aquired '94 Isuzu something-or-another and how she _just_ got it. :mad: Wife said her car looked totaled. gee....so sorry about your car

Judging from the pix, does anyone even remotely know how much it would cost to have the repair work done **correctly**?
There doesn't appear to be any other damage except what is seen in the pix. Drives fine.

My only fear is that her insurance company will want to total the car!!!

I've got WAAAAY too much $$ blood, sweat and tears tied up in this car to let it some insurance company write me a check for blue book value!

...and to top if off, the insurance company is someone I've NEVER heard of....great :mad:

*http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/c/k/ck42/Cars/MBZ/Resize%20of%20left-rear%20corner-SM.jpg
*http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/c/k/ck42/Cars/MBZ/Resize%20of%20right-rear%20corner-SM.jpg
*http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/c/k/ck42/Cars/MBZ/Resize%20of%20right-rear%20side-SM.jpg

At least yours is drivable. Mine got totaled yesterday. Hit in front drivers side by a speeder....really sucks. I feel for you.

Ouch! I hope your wife is okay. What insurence company does the girl have? There is no way to guess what it would cost to fix. It is the internal damege and paint work that gets expensive. You are going to need at least a new trunk lid and rear bumper, probably one, maybe two rear quarter panels. New lights and maybe some mounts also. My gues is maybe in the 2,500 to 3,000 range. Whats the book value? Hopefully they wont try to total it on you.

Man I hate to see something like this:( . Sorry about the 300SD Chris.

Wife is in good shape.:) She said it was a pretty good hit....in fact, it even popped the radio out of its hole halfway:eek:

Insurance co. is Hanover Ins. Co (Allmerica).

Not sure of blue book value...last time I looked it was something like $3700. Including my purchase price, repairs I've made, repairs I've had made for me, I've easily got almost 3X that in the car (I plan(ned) on keeping the car forever so I didn't mind pouring the money into it).

thnx for the sympathy enga...looks like I won't be making any GTG'ers anytime soon:(

I have never heard off that insurence company either. I just got my insurence claim settled. The acident happened in Feduary. I delt with electric insurence. They are scum:mad: But if you dig your heels in, and are willing to take your time and go to court you probably will get the car fixed. Good luck, give them a call and see what they say. Hopefully they just cut you a check to get it fixed.:)

That's still a daily driver to me. :)

I'd paint a ricer shadow on the back of the trunk lid with a big red X across it like they do for dogfight kills on fighter airplanes.

Then get a vanity plate: NOT2CLS

And if you want to intimidate someone behind you at a light, shift into reverse and stare into the rear view mirror.

But I am sorry for your loss of a very pretty car.

- - - -

Ken300D

I am crying for you... The best shops will charge $2-3 thousand. and he only way to bring it back to previous condition is a total repaint which should be at least $6-10 K. I am working on two cars now so I kneow the drill.


Women drivers hey! The old cliche fits doesn't it.


Again sorry man, I would be in a deep depressoin about this one.

It's obvious the other driver is a fault so it's likely that the insurance company will play ball. I realize that California may be different but when my wife got rear ended in my old TR8 the insurance company paid 1.5X the book value to fix it because it was in such nice shape and we weren't going to sue them for personal injury. I'll bet you can cut a deal. Sorry about the loss but think how lucky your wife was to be in such a solid car.

By the way, Allmerica is a Massachusetts based company with a decent reputation. They're usually sold through independant insurance agents so it's not surprising that you may not have heard of them. Let us know how it goes.

if the insurance company is scum, and won't pay you, just get one of those personal injury lawyers that'll work on contingency.ike Irg said though, they may cut you a deal for plenty just to keep you from suing for personal injury. that will always up their offer. if you still aren't satisfied those sleazy lawyers will get money out those scummy insurance companies. Especially when you get rear-ended, there is no disputing fault, plenty of ways to get money to treat any "soft tissue injuries" the ones that are hard to disprove. It wouldn't be very moral if the Insurance Companies weren't such scum, but they are so you may as well get all you can out of them.

She has a contract with the insurance company,, and it was her fault... so just don't get in a hurry... and be prepared and WILLING to go to a jury trial.... insurance companies don't want to do that with a car so beautiful and classic as yours... I have seen people hold out and get fair deals as a result....

Ouch sorry about that man. I got rear-ended by a 2003 C230 Coupe. The old benz was, I guess, stronger than the C. The C suffered minor damage, broken grille, slightly crooked hood. The CD survived though with the C's license plate imprinted in the rubber impact strip :rolleyes:

From the pictures, doesn't look like the rear bulkhead got pushed in. I'm guessing it's fixable. Good luck!

*damn SUVs...*

yeah, like leatherman said, if your willing to go to a jury trial, they may cut you a good enough deal. like holson said, Damn SUV's. probably wouldn't have been nearly as bad with another sedan. less weight and bumpers would have matched up

I had an accident in my 89 190E in May. I was sitting, waiting to go out into a four-lane, when the lady in a four wheel drive truck in front of me panicked, put it in reverse and floored it, hitting the front of my car at about 30 mph. Result, about $7,000 in damage. By all means should have been totalled. She had no insurance, so my uninsured motorist polocy took care of it. They started making noises as if they wanted to total it, but like you I had way too much TLC, work and money in it for that. I had then send an evaluator out to look at the car. He came, saw what condition the car was in prior to the accident, (immaculate as he put it). He set the value at just over 10K and authorized the repair. The body shop is the only M-B authorized shop in the area. They did outstanding work and the car is actually better now than before as the plastic light cover had started to craze. Now they are new.
Have a valuation done, that may raise the value enough for the insurance company to authorize repairs. Good Luck!!

at least as far as the body damage goes...I'd check for used sheet metal with Potomac German Auto. Don't think painting the repair should be insanely expensive...I use a small shop where the guy does great work of this type for fair prices.

Insurance companies tend to see-saw on whether to fix or total cars of this vintage.

Jury trial:rolleyes: What would he sue for at this point? The girl gets a ticket, her insurance pays--or if she is uninsured, she gets two tickets and wifes insurance pays. If the insurance company pays what the car is worth (or the amount to fix it), you can go after the girl for what you think is probably the difference in what the ins. co. paid and what you have in the car (we said no injuries, right). If the insurance co. doesn't pay (for instance b/c they think it was wife's fault) you may have a suit for bad faith, but come on folks, TV is not all true:) Try to get a lawyer to actually file a bogus soft tissue claim---the experts alone to evaluate such a claim would cost him/her more than twice what the car is worth.

As for that phone book personal injury crap, they mostly just push the insurance company to pay legitimate claims for people who are overwhelmed by the process. Thee are of course, exceptions.

Sorry about the car--it is beautiful! Glad your wife is ok, and glad I own a safe car.

Sorry about the car.

It appears to have some frame damage done to it by the way the picture shows. There is an area of the frame right next to your rear passenger side wheel which is a crush zone, the body can't be straightened out until this is straightened. Perhaps, and hopefully I'm wrong, take a look. Right next to the spare tire is where it'd be, so look under that cover. I'm guessing $3k or a little more. If totaling is your concern perhaps after negotiating the most you can out of it you can also negotiating buying it back from them for whatever they think it is worth as a parts car.

Good luck.
Damn Silly Useless Vehicles....

I didn't realize that "Grace" was so beautiful. Really hurts to see that rear end and I agree about all these darn people driving SUV's where the bumpers don't line up. Let's hope your car can be restored as good as new.

As far as Allmerica and the sub Hanover. They are indeed a big time insurance company. Trade on NY under symbol AFC. Now how they will treat this and you - I have no idea.

No doubt we've all made drving mistakes before, but just how does one push the gas instead of the brake? I don't think I could do that if I tried.

ck42,

This is repeat topic here as most our cars are in better than average condition, and they are old enough to have a meaningless blue book value. In almost every case, the right to have your car fixed vs. totalled when it is not your fault wins out if you are persistent. I am not an advocate of threatening a claim of bodily injury as leverage, and I think you have a right to have your property restored after it sustains damage through no fault of your own. The insurance company, based on the premiums paid by the person at fault, is obligated to represent their customer in a court if the issue goes there. So, if they do not offer you sufficient funds to restore your car, sue the person who hit you. They damaged your property and the opinion of the insurance company is only valid if you agree it is. They are a third party, and their estimates of the value of your property are not legally binding on you, unless you sign some settlement.

So, you do have the option to take the person who damaged your property to court. They have the right to have their insurance company perform what ever services they are due under their contract. But you have no obligation to deal directly with the insurance company.

My Aunt just had her 1984 230E (Euro car) hit by an SUV from the side, just behind the front door on the passenger side. The car's book value is probably less than $1500 especially since it is a Euro model and has 150,000 or so miles. She had $3,800 of repairs done (new fender, new rear door, new, fabricated inner fender for the rear quarter panel, painted the whole side) and her insurance agent handled the whole affair. The insurance company of the person doing the damage paid her in 3 days after the work was done.

I think you are looking at more than $6000 of repair work. You have at least one fender, the bumper and its cladding, the trunk, and rear light fixture or fixtures to be replaced. It appears you will be needing some structural rework too, all followed by painting of the entire rear end. It could be $10,000 before it is done, especially if there is anything wrong with mechanical goodies.

I think you should get your agent involved in the negotiation process, let him know you are really unhappy, the car was immaculate, and, hopefully you have a good enough relationship with him/her that your years of being a good customer will pay off. I am dead sure my Aunt's agent made it clear my Aunt would not walk away, and the car was beautiful, regardless of whether or not it was a Euro model.

Hope this helps, and I really sympathize. Jim

UPDATE:

Jim, looks like your estimate was pretty close. I just got back from having two estimates done....one shop telling me that they wouldn't even be interested in doing the work after handing me the estimate.:eek:

First shop, and the one of choice, gave an estimate of $7K and said there could be more once they pull things apart. The other shop gave me a $7.5K estimate.

So.....next in line is to see what the other person's insurance company thinks of these numbers.

I'll keep this thread updated as it may be of value to others in the future that find themselves in a similar situation.

It's likely they will total the car. If they insist on totaling it out, then ask them how much it would cost to buy the car back. Usually, they give you a check and tow the car, but you usually can get the car back for what a wrecking yard would pay for it--probably a few hundred bucks.

I had the same issue when my Alfa was rear-ended, but I am lucky that my brother is a locally noted trial attorney. One call from him and I got what I wanted for the car, plus a rental for a month.

If your wife doesn’t have any medical bills then her suit would not be worth more than a nuisance value—3-5 thousand bucks.

The key to a better settlement will be proving the value of your car. You need to find at least one, or two and the more the merrier, comparable cars for sale somewhere at a very high price—try a local MBZ dealer. If you don’t like their offer, and you won’t, you’ll have to prove the value of your car and the only way to do that is to find cars that you think are of equal value that are for sale and show the insurance company the prices. Then the worst case will be that you’ll buy one of those cars.

You may wind up with a new car and a great parts car.

M.

The stance I'm taking on this is:

*I'M* the victim, and I shouldn't be taking any sort of a financial loss due to someone else's negligence.

Either pay whatever it takes to fix the car or supply me with another car of equal condition and value.

The fact that will cost x dollars to fix my car is not MY problem....it's THEIRS. I didn't cause the damage.

The insurance company should simply be concerned with "making me whole" again.

Chris
'85 300SD

This happened to our 87 SDL one year ago and it cost about $3500.

But our rear fenders were not as bad though.

I agree with CK. That was the attititude i had when My 89 190E got hit. However it was harder than I anticipated. I finally had to mention that I was consulting an attorney before the insurance company relented and authorized the repair on the car.

Update:

Estimator from the Ins. company visted the car at the wife's work Monday.

Talked with the claims handler and was told that the estimate was set at $4278. I'll be receiving a copy of the estimate shortly...supposedly with a check following shortly afterwards.

Claims handler said that any descrepency in what the shop says needs done and what the appraisal says will have to be hammered out between the body shop and the appraiser.

more later.

Chris
'85 300SD

Excellent, looks like you will get to keep it after all.

First off I am sorry to hear about this and the main important thing is no one was seriously injured or worse.

Second-since the other party was cited this unfortunate situation is in your favor so play the cards right.

One-property damage(your car)-Notify your insurance carrier asap.Especially knowing you were not citied they will bat for you.
Two- 3 estimates from all different body repair shops(and since you are in the State of CA use Bureau of Automotive Repair site for feedback or actions against the shop)
Three-You have the right to a rental car so you do not possibly incur anymore damage to the car
Four-Why are they going out to your wife's work?They can meet you at your home.I believe the reason they are doing so is incase of a personal injury part of the accident.Whatever it may be advise her not to sign anything without legal advice and for her benefit please have a witness present.it is quite normal (and legal with consent) for claim adjusters to record conversations etc.This will protect her incase of anything said or done misconstrued.
Five-Demand high book on your car-what a dealer would sell it for.That was its condition.Take it or leave it (they can then find you a replacement car exactly the same way for whatever price)

When pressure is appllied correctly,they will realize that a bad faith claim as well as attorney's fees from 35% to 50% (winning in court) will exceed the other drivers limits and put them in a dicey situation.I do hope this helps.

Hawk:

Not quite yet....

I talked to the body shop this morning and explained things. They said that they WILL negotiate with the insurance company AFTER they pull the car apart to get a better idea of what the actual costs will be.

*IF* the insurance company doesn't decide to total the car and agrees to pay whatever amount to fix the car....then I get to be happy. :)

*IF* the body shop comes up with a $ amount to fix the car and the insurance company says NOPE, not gonna pay that to fix it, then they will **want** to write me a check for a totalled car.

I say **want** because I'm going to fight this till the bitter end to get them to fix it. If they don't, then they're gonna pay me enough to find another car I'll be happy with.

mrdhh:
My ins. co. already contaced.
I have 2 estimates so far...if necessary, I can get a third.
You're darn tootin they're gonna pay for whatever rental car needs I have.
Wife didn't sign anything. In fact, the person didn't even try to contact her after looking at the car.
The bad faith claim is interesting. I'll keep that in mind.

So, the car is going in to the shop Monday to be taken apart. They'll take a couple days to do their song and dance with the ins. co. and get back with me.

Chris
'85 300SD

If it is any consolation to you, my pristine 82 300SD just got rear ended by a Chevy Blazer a few hours ago. Downside is I dont have insurance,(unemployed and poor) and I dont think the other guy does either. Mine is not quite so bad as yours though. Bumper is hacked up with a little 3 inch scar and rt tailight lens corner smashed. And there is that kink in little the metal above the bumper, near the license plate. It just makes me sick. The idiot gave me the same story..his gas surged mysteriously. Guess ill settle with him paying for a new tailight lens, touch up the bumper scar with a little paint and try to learn to live with it. This is the third time in my life I have been rearended. I just hate the feel of the car after an accident, even if its just minor, I just feel violated. and very ticked off. Oh well, misery loves company...

ck42

I have a neighbor whos wife totalled :(their 116 (not much damage really) and the insurance was going to give them something like $2000.00. Anyway he got this used MB parts guy down in Portland to write a letter stating the value of a nice 116 and he got $6500.00 for the car and bought it back from the insurance co. :D he is going to fix it himself this winter. I really thought he was farting into the wind when he said the guy in Portland could get him a fair settlement. Your car is obliviously very nice. Best of luck

Shop called this morning to update me.

Said the ins. adjuster had come out to look at the car (I guess while it was pulled apart). Apparently, the ins. co.'s low fix-it price of $4300 was based around using used parts and cut-out sheetmetal to be trimmed and welded in. Then...it turns out that the used parts the guy supposedly found aren't even there anymore!
The shop guy says his price was for all new and OEM stuff. So...there's where some of the repair price diff is.

Anyway, shop guy says the ins. guy is gonna total the car:mad:
I should hear back from the shop sometime today hopefully, after he's gotten ahold of the ins. adjuster for more info.

Can't say I'm at all surprised if they want to total it....it's what I've been expecting. It just means more fighting with the ins. co.:rolleyes:

Chris
'85 300SD

(Time to play-THE WEAKEST LINK-START THE CLOCK

First off apparently as you describe it is going n.r.c. (normal,reasonable and customary).

Dinger to them-apparently it was to your advantage that the car was not 20 years old-classification classic and about $3k more.

Pursuiant to Kelley Blue Book,N.A.D.A and carprices.com your 1985 300 SD with 137k miles will retail for about $5950.

You will also have to be credited sales tax and transfer fee and salvage certification (if you choose to keep-my advice NO).

And you are being credited for each and every day you do not have use of your vehicle due to their clients actions ? (Its adding up close to their PD limits if exceeds-will be made up for in court upon her conviction of causing an accident with property damage in excess of $500 and bodily injury).

Why no on salvage? Sometimes I know it can be personal but the car cannot be the same as it was before.They can make it look that way,but a bent uniframe or whatever (shake at 45 mph),I know you would question having your wife or even yourself drive it.And remember when getting it slavaged,it has to pass an complete inspection to become roadworthy because God forbid,your vehicle causes something much worse.

Since every Saturday we get the Fresno Bee here (BULLDOGS),they have listed private party 2 cars in your category

1984 300SD 143k miles $5250
1986 300SDL 178k miles $5800/obo



Long story short (FINALLY YOU SAY).$6500 +/- cash value to you,they get the pink (if the car goes back to your house first-CLEAN IT OUT-stereo,visors,mats,headrests-you know stuff that can accidently come,fall or tossed out when getting out your personal things.Since declining salvage,they will pick up the vehicle and part it accordingly to make up for their payout for their customer's mistake.When that check hits your hands (remove your license plates) at that time your daily rental reimbursement (sometimes they give you a car with their cooberating dealer-budget,avis etc) will cease so go on a real long trip return it with no gas etc because they made you pay for it (in a roundabout way-drive to Fresno and look at these?);)

Chris, my condolences on this situation.

Mrdhh, you've got me thinking. I bought a truly pristine one-owner 81 300SD with 110k miles about a week ago. Talked to my insurance, and was given the choice of liability only (I have some fairly high limits) for about $100/year additional premium, for my current full package on my other car it would be about $500/year. I went with liability under the assumption that with a $500 deductible, they'd give me a couple of grand at most for the car, and I'd be paying more in premium after a few years than the policy was worth on the car. It sounds like it might be worth rethinking that plan.

How likely is it that Chris will get anywhere close to what you're advising? If it's your company doing the paying, i.e. uninsured motorist or your fault, how likely would it be?

mrdhh:

"You will also have to be credited sales tax and transfer fee and salvage certification (if you choose to keep-my advice NO)."

Didn't realize this. I just thought that I'd end up having to buy it back as salvage out of my own pocket.

"Pursuiant to Kelley Blue Book,N.A.D.A and carprices.com your 1985 300 SD with 137k miles will retail for about $5950."

Seems about right. Even if the $4300 they've offered for repair work was at the 70% limit for totalling the car, another 30% would put it right at $6K. I'll find out more hopefully on Monday.

"And you are being credited for each and every day you do not have use of your vehicle due to their clients actions ?"

Not sure what you mean here. Sure, they're paying for the rental car right now...but do you mean they're suppose to be paying me something additional to that?

"(Its adding up close to their PD limits if exceeds-will be made up for in court upon her conviction of causing an accident with property damage in excess of $500 and bodily injury)."

PD limit?? Please explain this bit some more.

"Why no on salvage? Sometimes I know it can be personal but the car cannot be the same as it was before.They can make it look that way,but a bent uniframe or whatever (shake at 45 mph),I know you would question having your wife or even yourself drive it.And remember when getting it slavaged,it has to pass an complete inspection to become roadworthy because God forbid,your vehicle causes something much worse."

I planned on keeping the car forever so...resale value due to a salvage title doesn't bother me...as long as the repairs are done correctly. I don't think there's any frame damage either; just bent sheetmetal. In fact, the car is still completely driveable. The only issue is that the trunk won't close.

As for removing stuff. I don't plan on anything underhanded, but I sure as heck would remove my Euro lights, custom stereo, sheepskins, new floor mats, and anything else that I added that wouldn't be considered in their appraisal value.

Chris
'85 300SD

First off sorry to reply late-Had hearings out of town.

Getting back to you-P/D means property damage.Under most policies in your liabilty secotion,CA minimums is 15/30/5.Which is 15k per person for bodily injury 30 per occurance (let us say 2 people in car 15 a piece 4 in car $7500-YIKES) % thousand is minimum for property damage i.e your car.What not alot of people know is insurance will cover it for driving infractions (non intentional ) but if it involves reckless or DUI than the insurance company pays out and comes after the insured because the injury or property damage was the result of a crime.Eventhough its a misdemeanor,believe me they still do.One of our old cars was parked and hit,the guy was under the influence and under insured.Insurance company (since there was 3 cars involved gave us 66% of its total loss) we are getting the 1/3 this month or he goes to jail and still will have to make us restitution.The insrance company already filed a $5k claim in his criminal case.Judge reminded them he represents victims me,insurance companies need to file civil and or small claim action.Yes I got to relay my victims impact statement-basically telling him he was very lucky that the car was there and if it was not he would have hit 3, 5 year olds playing in the front yard.So I hope that helps.

Since budget times are tough the are getting tougher on salvage vehicles.You are starting to note different meanings (i.e theft recovery,insurance recovery,fire).Cars with damage from collision requires (State of CA) to have the CHP do a complete inspection.This alone costs and has to be scheduled $60.00.If it does not pass atleast you will know what area is causing it.

Also word from the wise-do not attempt to take a car marked salvage from one state to another.They do reference and background checks via VIN and the CLUE (Comprehensive Loss Underwriters Exchange).Regular people as well can access this for about 8.00 per vehicle or residential address.This is very helpful-if or evenmore than carfax in certain areas.

mrdhh:

While you response *sounds* informative, your wording is very confusing. I tried to break my questions into sections so that you would have the opportunity to respond to the actual questions I had.

Q:
"You will also have to be credited sales tax and transfer fee and salvage certification (if you choose to keep-my advice NO)."

Q:
"And you are being credited for each and every day you do not have use of your vehicle due to their clients actions ?"

Q:
"(Its adding up close to their PD limits if exceeds-will be made up for in court upon her conviction of causing an accident with property damage in excess of $500 and bodily injury)."

I think you tried to answer this last question, but I'm still confused by your response.

Chris
'85 300SD

Question 1-Your actual loss will be the value (blue book ) of car plus sales tax plus transfer fee and salvage certiticate.All 3 added up

2.If you are paying out of your pocket for a rental car or use of another,you are to be credited back.

3.If she is carrying only 5k for property,guess what you wiped that clean.You will have the option of using your (if applicable) under insured/uninsured part of your policy or prior to her conviction of the accident,place a claim for the difference (I will say about 1300-1500) in her court proceeding.It might mean payments for awhile or what.No pay then we have a contempt of court and a stay of her license.


Its not your fault the she was underinsured.While I do not know all the facts of the case,9 times out of 10 people do try to make good and learn a very valuable lesson about insurance and FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY


What I have learned and I hope it helps anyone listening:

Insurance is not a credit card.It is financial risk management based on factors not known by many.

Keep your deductables high and your liabilty the same.

The difference between a 250 to a 1000 deductable can be amazing.It shows you will not file a claim unless its real loss.

On the other end the difference between a 15/30 to a 300/300 is sometimes not even 1 and a half times more.While some people will actually think it should costs 20 times more,because they actually think of getting into accidents and how many times-YIKE:eek:

Ladies and Gentilemen:


Execuse while I pick my jaw up off the floor.
http://smilies.sofrayt.com/1/4/jawdown.gif















....Ahem,

The insurance co's appraiser has APPROVED the body shop's repair http://smilies.sofrayt.com/1/r/dance.gif

I don't know what else to say....

Glad to hear that the insurance company is going to do the right thing. As I indicated early in this thread, if you have a decent company and you deal with them squarely but firmly, often times it works out. Insurance companies are just so used to getting scammed that they will easily revert to the hard a$$ mode if you give them a reason too. Good job in managing the situation and I wish Grace a speedy recovery.

That's a shock. I was sure they'd total it. That's impressive they are paying for the repairs as expensive as they are. I went through a similar experience you can read about here:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64153

They ended up totaling my car, paying me $6,200 for it, and i bought it back for $600 with a salvage title. That gives me a lot more money than was needed to fix the car which makes me happy.

A couple tips...

The body shop should be able to garuntee that your car will drive straight once it is fixed. No shimmy at 45mph or anything like that. They put it on a frame pulling machine that is computerized and works very well.

Then your bodyshop should be willing to work with you to make decisions on what to fix and how.

Good luck and keep us updated. I can't wait for mine to be done and come home!

Eric